Transcript: William Fowler on the Seven Years' War | Jan 18, 2006

Alan Gregg sits on a couch in front of William Fowler.
Alan is in his sixties, has a short gray goatee, short brown hair, and is wearing a black suit and a white shirt.
William is in his late sixties, has a short white moustache, short white hair, and is wearing a black suit, blue shirt, and dark gray tie.

Alan says MOST CANADIANS ARE
FAMILIAR WITH THE BATTLE
OF THE PLAINS OF ABRAHAM,
AND ITS MILITARY HEROES,
MONTCALM AND WOLFE,
BUT UNAWARE THAT THIS
WAS REALLY PART OF A
MUCH LARGER CONFLICT.
IN FACT, YOU TALK AND
DESCRIBE THE SEVEN YEARS' WAR
IN YOUR NEW BOOK AS LITERALLY
THE FIRST WORLD WAR.
EXPLAIN THAT.

A caption appears on screen. It reads “William Fowler. Author, ‘Empires at War’.”

William says WELL, IT WAS THE
FIRST WORLD WAR.
IT WAS FOUGHT ON NEARLY EVERY
CONTINENT IN THE WORLD.
IT WAS FOUGHT IN ASIA, IN
EUROPE, IN NORTH AMERICA,
IN THE FAR EAST.
MORE THAN A MILLION MEN
DIED BY THE END OF THE WAR.
SO IT WAS A WORLDWIDE
CONFLAGRATION.
AND IN THE END, THE
TREATY OF PARIS, 1763,
MORE TERRITORY TRADED
HANDS THAN ALL OF EUROPE.
IT WAS THE FIRST WORLD
WAR AND SET THE STAGE
FOR THE CREATION,
FOR THE EMERGENCE,
OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE.
AND IT WAS THAT EMPIRE THAT
WOULD PROVIDE THE RESOURCES
THAT WOULD FUEL THE
INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION
AND TRANSFORM THE WORLD.
SO THIS WAR THAT RAGED FOR
SEVEN YEARS WAS, INDEED,
THE FIRST WORLD WAR, IMPACTED
AND SHAPED THE WORLD
THAT WE LIVE IN TODAY.

Alan says NOW, YOU MAKE THE POINT
THAT BRITAIN AND FRANCE
REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO
ENGAGE IN THE COLONIES,
IN NORTH AMERICA BECAUSE
THEY WERE SUPPOSED
TO PRODUCE MONEY,
NOT COST MONEY.
AND PERHAPS WOULD NOT
HAVE STARTED A MILITARY
CONFLICT HERE WERE IT NOT
FOR KIND OF AN IMPERTINENT
22-YEAR-OLD MILITIA MAJOR
CALLED GEORGE WASHINGTON.
DESCRIBE HIS ROLE IN STARTING
THIS WHOLE THING OFF.

William says IN THE EARLY 1750s, THE
FRENCH BEGAN TO COME DOWN
THROUGH THE OHIO
VALLEY, ESTABLISHING
THEIR OWN CLAIM
TO WESTERN LANDS.
THIS FRIGHTENED THE
VIRGINIANS BECAUSE,
OF COURSE, IT THREATENED
THEIR LAND CLAIMS.
SO THE VIRGINIAN
GOVERNOR, ROBERT DINWIDDIE,
SUMMONED GEORGE WASHINGTON,
THIS YOUNG MILITIA OFFICER,
AND SENT HIM WEST TO
WARN THE FRENCH OUT.
WELL, WASHINGTON
DID GO WEST.
HE TRIED TO WARN
THE FRENCH OUT,
BUT THEY WEREN'T
LISTENING.
WHEN HE CAME BACK
FROM HIS FIRST TRIP,
HIS NEWS SO ALARMED THE
GOVERNOR, THAT INDEED,
THE FRENCH WERE
THERE IN FORCE,
THAT HE SENT
WASHINGTON BACK.
AND ON HIS SECOND
TRIP OUT, WASHINGTON,
WITH A SMALL GROUP OF INDIANS
AND SOME VIRGINIA MILITIA,
SURPRISED A CAMP OF
SLEEPING FRENCH SOLDIERS.
AND WITHOUT WARNING,
WASHINGTON AND HIS MEN
OPENED FIRE ON THE FRENCH.

Alan asks AND THIS IS BEFORE
WAR HAD BEEN DECLARED?

William says WAR HAD NOT
BEEN DECLARED.
THE TWO NATIONS
WERE AT PEACE.
THE FRENCH HAD NOT PROVOKED
WASHINGTON AT ALL.
AND IT WAS THAT INCIDENT, NOT
FAR FROM WHERE PITTSBURGH
IS LOCATED TODAY, AT
A PLACE, INDEED,
THAT IS NOW CALLED JUMONVILLE
GLEN, THERE WAS THE SPARK,
AS HORACE WALPOLE
SAID, THE SPARK
THAT SET THE WORLD AFIRE.
AND WHEN THE NEWS GOT BACK
TO ENGLAND AND TO FRANCE,
OF THIS INCIDENT
IN THE FAR WEST,
IT SIMPLY SET THIS
WHOLE THING AFIRE,
AND WAR BEGAN TO ERUPT.

Alan says THEY DO GET INTO IT.
AND DEPLOY A TREMENDOUS
AMOUNT OF RESOURCES.
THE EARLY DAYS, MOST BATTLES
ARE WON BY THE FRENCH.
AND MOST HISTORIANS HAVE
SAID THAT IS BECAUSE
THEY ADAPTED TO NORTH AMERICAN
FIGHTING IN A DIFFERENT WAY,
IN NO SMALL MEASURE
AS A CONSEQUENCE
OF THEIR ALLIANCE
WITH THE NATIVES.

William says YES.

Alan continues WHO, IN TURN, ARE OFTEN
SEEN AS KIND OF PAWNS,
BEING PLAYED OFF ONE
AGAINST EACH OTHER.
YOUR READ IS A
LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

William says THE NATIVES WERE
NOT PAWNS AT ALL.
THE NATIVES WERE, IN
PARTICULAR, THE LEADERS OF
THE NATIVES, WHEN YOU LOOK AT
PEOPLE LIKE ATTAKULLAKULLA,
WHO LED THE CHEROKEES, WHEN
YOU LOOK AT CHIEF HENDRICK
WHO LED THE MOHAWK, AND TEDDY
OOCHING WHO LED THE DELAWARE.
YOU REALIZE, WHEN YOU
READ WHAT THEY SAID,
THEY UNDERSTOOD QUITE
FULLY WHAT WAS GOING ON.
THEY KNEW THEY WERE
BEING GROUND DOWN
BETWEEN TWO
GREAT EMPIRES.
NEITHER EMPIRE
WISHED THEM WELL.
AND SO THESE INDIAN LEADERS
OFTEN TRADED SIDES.
THEY WOULD SIDE WITH THE
ALLY THAT WOULD GIVE THEM
THE MOST FOR THAT
PARTICULAR MOMENT.
THEY WERE REALLY
FIGHTING A PARALLEL WAR.
THERE WERE THE FRENCH VERSUS
THE ENGLISH, AND IN MANY WAYS,
IT WAS THE INDIANS
VERSUS BOTH OF THEM,
DEPENDING UPON THE
CIRCUMSTANCES.
NO, THEY FULLY UNDERSTOOD
WHAT WAS GOING ON.
THEY FULLY UNDERSTOOD THAT
BOTH THE FRENCH AND THE ENGLISH
WERE, AT HEART,
THEIR ENEMIES.
ALTHOUGH THEIR REAL ENEMY,
THE MORE SERIOUS ENEMY
WERE THE ENGLISH.
THE FRENCH, AT LEAST, HAD A
CULTURE AND A SOCIETY
IN NEW FRANCE THAT WAS
COMPATIBLE WITH THE NATIVE
AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE.
THERE WERE NOT MANY
FRENCH IN NEW FRANCE,
AND THEIR FARMING WAS
CONFINED TO THE ST. LAWRENCE
VALLEY, SO THEY DIDN'T
THREATEN INDIAN LANDS,
AND THEY TRADED
WITH THE INDIANS,
A COMPATIBLE TRADING
ARRANGEMENT.
THE ENGLISH, ON THE OTHER
HAND, WERE FARMERS.
THE ENGLISH WANTED LAND.
THEY WANTED TO
CULTIVATE LAND.
IF THERE WERE TWO THINGS
ENGLISH SETTLERS HATED
THE MOST, IT WAS
TREES AND INDIANS.
AND THEY WANTED
TO BE RID OF BOTH.

Alan says NOW, I WAS AMAZED,
AT ALSO HOW LOPSIDED
A LOT OF THESE
BATTLES WERE.
WITHIN ALMOST EVERY
INSTANCE, THE BRITISH TROOPS
FAR OUTWEIGHING
THE FRENCH.
YET AGAIN, IN THE FIRST
EARLY PERIOD HERE,
THE FRENCH ARE CONSISTENTLY
WINNING THESE BATTLES.
WHY?

William says THE FRENCH WERE
EXTRAORDINARILY WELL-LED.
THEY WERE WELL-LED
BY NATIVE CANADIANS.
I THINK THAT IS ONE THING THAT
IS OFTEN MISSED IN THIS WAR
WHEN WE FOCUS ON THE
NORTH AMERICAN ASPECT,
OF HOW MUCH OF THE WAR WAS
FOUGHT BY NATIVE CANADIANS,
LA MARINE AS THEY
WERE CALLED.
THESE WERE THE
COLONIAL REGULARS.
AND THEY WERE
SUPERB TROOPS.
HARDENED VETERANS WHO HAD
BEEN OUT AT MICHILIMACKINAC
BY OUT TO THE SIOUX, BEEN OUT
TO THE LAKE OF THE WOODS.
THESE WERE MEN WHO KNEW
THE NATIVE AMERICANS,
WHO KNEW HOW TO
WORK WITH THEM.
AND THEY KNEW HOW
TO LEAD MEN.
NEW FRANCE ALSO HAD
THE STRENGTH OF BEING
A HIGHLY CENTRALIZED
GOVERNMENT.
THAT IS, ORDERS WERE ACTUALLY
OBEYED WHEN THEY CAME OUT
OF QUEBEC OR MONTREAL.
THE BRITISH, ON
THE OTHER HAND,
HAD 13 SQUABBLING
COLONIES.
AND THESE 13 SQUABBLING
COLONIES WERE ALMOST
AS ACRIMONIOUS
TOWARDS ONE ANOTHER
AS THEY WERE
TOWARDS THE FRENCH.

Alan says BUT ONE OF THE FEW BATTLES
THE BRITISH ACTUALLY WIN
IN THIS EARLIER PERIOD IN 1755
TAKES PLACE IN NOVA SCOTIA.
AND LEADS TO THE EXPULSION
OF THE ACADIANS.
TELL ME ABOUT THAT
PARTICULAR BATTLE.
AGAIN, ITS CONSEQUENCES FOR
HOW NORTH AMERICA WAS SETTLED.

William says THE BATTLES IN NOVA SCOTIA IN
WHICH THE BRITISH WERE ABLE
TO DEFEAT THE FRENCH VERY
EARLY IN THE WAR, DID,
IN FACT, LEAD TO THE
EXPULSION OF THE ACADIANS,
WHICH IS ONE OF THE GREAT
TRAGEDIES OF THIS WAR.
THE ACADIAN LANDS WERE
EXTRAORDINARILY RICH.
THEY WERE WONDERFUL,
WONDERFUL FARMERS.
THEY HAD DYKED
THE MARSHLANDS,
AND THEIR LANDS WERE
EXCEEDINGLY PRODUCTIVE.
LAND-HUNGRY NEW ENGLANDERS
WANTED THE ACADIAN LANDS.
THEY HAD WANTED THEM IN
THE 1720s AND THE 1730s,
AND THE 1740s.
THEY HAD NEVER QUITE
HAD THE EXCUSE THAT
THEY NEEDED TO
TAKE THESE LANDS.
WELL, FINALLY, WHEN WAR
BREAKS OUT, IN 1754 AND '55,
THE ACADIANS, WHO
REMAIN NEUTRAL,
ARE ACCUSED OF
BEING TRAITORS.

Alan says RIGHT.

William continues TRAITORS.
THEY WILL NOT
FIGHT FOR THE KING,
THEY FIGHT FOR
THE FRENCH.
THIS WAS THE EXCUSE
THAT THE ENGLISH NEEDED,
THAT THEY WANTED, THAT
THEY HAD BEEN WAITING FOR.
AND IT WAS A GREAT INJUSTICE
BECAUSE THE ACADIANS,
INDEED, HAD BEEN NEUTRAL.
AND THAT'S ALL THEY WISHED
TO BE, WAS TO BE NEUTRAL.
BUT NEUTRAL IN WARTIME WAS
NOT AN ACCEPTABLE POSITION.

Alan says ESPECIALLY IF YOUR
LANGUAGE WAS FRENCH.

William says AND YOU WERE CATHOLIC.

A clip shows the cover of a book. It reads “Empires at War.”

Alan says NOW, THE COVER OF
YOUR BOOK, YOU KNOW,
DEPICTS THE FAMOUS BATTLE
OF THE PLAINS OF ABRAHAM,
TWO MOST DOMINANT FIGURES,
WOLFE AND MONTCALM,
IDEALIZED BY EVERY CHILDREN'S
HISTORICAL SCHOOLBOOK.
YET YOU SAY, NEITHER ONE
OF THESE TWO GUYS
WERE PARTICULARLY
BRILLIANT WHEN IT COMES ON
TO THE FIELD OF COMBAT.
AND THAT BATTLE COULD
HAVE GONE EITHER WAY,
AND MOST LIKELY EVEN IN THE
OPPOSITE WAY THAT IT WENT.

William says MONTCALM AND WOLFE ARE
FLAWED HUMAN BEINGS.
BUT THESE TWO MEN, THESE TWO
FATED INDIVIDUALS, OF COURSE,
MEET THERE ON THE
PLAINS OF ABRAHAM.
MONTCALM MAKES THE FATAL
DECISION TO LEAVE
THE PROTECTION OF THE
WALLS OF QUEBEC CITY,
AND TO COME OUT AND
FIGHT THE BRITISH.
IT WAS A FATAL MISTAKE IN THE
VERY REAL MEANING OF THAT WORD.

Alan asks WHY?
BECAUSE HE COULD HAVE
JUST WAITED THEM OUT?

William says MONTCALM COULD HAVE REMAINED
BEHIND THE WALLS OF QUEBEC.
AND IT IS ALWAYS A MYSTERY
TO ME WHY HE DID NOT.
BECAUSE TIME WAS
ON MONTCALM'S SIDE.
MONTCALM'S GREATEST ALLY
WAS THE CANADIAN WINTER.
AND IT WAS COMING.

Alan says BUT HISTORIANS HAVE
SAID HE WAS FEARING
THEY WOULD STARVE
TO DEATH.

William says HE WAS FEARING THEY
WOULD STARVE TO DEATH,
BUT THEY COULD
HAVE HELD OUT.
THERE WERE OTHER FRENCH
TROOPS, BY THE WAY,
BETWEEN MONTCALM
AND MONTREAL.
BOUGAINVILLE WAS
UP THE RIVER,
AND COULD HAVE COME
TO HIS AID, AS WELL.
MONTCALM WAS, I BELIEVE,
RECKLESS IN LEAVING
THE PROTECTION OF THE
WALLS OF QUEBEC,
AND PAID DEARLY FOR
THAT RECKLESSNESS.
BUT HERE ARE THESE TWO MEN,
BOTH OF THEM, OF COURSE,
DYING ON THE
FIELD OF BATTLE.
AND THERE HAVE BEEN ANY
NUMBER OF ANECDOTES,
AND APOCRYPHAL STORIES
AND ROMANTIC IMAGES
ABOUT HOW THEY DIE.
BUT THEY BOTH
BECOME GREAT HEROES.

Alan says WE'VE COME TO BELIEVE THAT
THE BATTLE OF THE PLAINS
OF ABRAHAM, YOU KNOW, LAYS THE
SEEDS FOR THE MAKING
OF THE CANADIAN
CHARACTER, AND THE NATURE
OF THE CANADIAN
CHARACTER SUBSEQUENTLY.
BUT YOU MAKE THE POINT THAT
THE IMPLICATION GOES FAR,
FAR, FAR BEYOND CANADA.
AND IN FACT, THE DECISIVE
WIN BY THE BRITISH
AT THIS PARTICULAR
JUNCTURE CHANGES
THE ENTIRE FACE
OF THE WORLD.

William says IT DOES, INDEED.
WHAT HAPPENS ON THE
PLAINS OF ABRAHAM,
AND LATER AT THE PEACE OF
PARIS IN 1763, IN FACT,
SHAPES THE WORLD
WE LIVE IN TODAY.
FOR EXAMPLE, IT
FORMS CANADA.
IT MAKES CERTAIN,
THE TREATY OF 1763,
IT MAKES CERTAIN THAT
CANADA WILL BE A NATION
FROM SEA TO SEA.
IT MAKES CERTAIN THAT CANADA
WILL BE PART OF THE EMPIRE,
AND EVENTUALLY
THE COMMONWEALTH.
AND IT MAKES CERTAIN WITHIN
THIS NATION FROM SEA TO SEA,
THERE WILL BE A DISTINCT
FRENCH MINORITY.

Alan says THAT'S QUITE SURPRISING
THAT THEY DO PROTECT
FRANCOPHONE RIGHTS EVEN
AT THIS POINT IN TIME,
ESPECIALLY OF A
DEFEATED POPULATION.

William says YES, IT IS SURPRISING BECAUSE
GIVEN WHAT THEY HAD DONE
TO THE ACADIANS, ONE MIGHT
THINK THAT THEY WOULD TRY
TO EXPEL, OR TO HAVE SEIZED
ALL THE FRENCH CANADIAN LANDS.
CERTAINLY, THAT'S WHAT
THEY DID IN SCOTLAND,
AND WHAT THEY
DID IN IRELAND.
SO THE GENTLE HAND OF BRITISH
AUTHORITY, AFTER 1763,
IS A TURN OF POLICY.
IT TURNS OUT, BY
THE WAY, OF COURSE,
TO BE A VERY WISE
TURN OF POLICY.
BECAUSE COME THE
AMERICAN REVOLUTION,
BARELY A DOZEN YEARS LATER,
THE AMERICANS EXPECT
THE FRENCH CANADIANS TO JOIN US
IN THE WAR FOR INDEPENDENCE,
AND THEY DON'T.
BECAUSE, IN POINT OF
FACT, THEY HAVE BEEN,
REASONABLY WELL-TREATED
BY THE BRITISH.
BUT IT ALSO MEANS CANADA IS
GOING TO BE FROM SEA TO SEA.
THAT HAD THE FRENCH
SURVIVED IN THE VALLEY
OF THE ST. LAWRENCE, IT
WOULD HAVE BEEN AN UNUSUAL
SITUATION WHERE YOU HAD
BRITISH COLONIES ON THE EAST,
AND THEN YOU HAD THIS VAST
WILDERNESS TO THE WEST.
AND THAT WILDERNESS WOULD
HAVE BEEN UP FOR GRABS,
EITHER BY AMERICANS, OR
PERHAPS THE BRITISH,
AND IT WOULD HAVE CREATED
A VERY DIFFERENT SCENE
IN NORTH AMERICA.

Alan says AND THE COST OF
NORTH AMERICA
BECAME A SIGNIFICANT
BURDEN ON BRITAIN,
WHICH AMERICAN HISTORIANS
SAY, INVARIABLY LED
TO THE REVOLUTION.

William says ABSOLUTELY.
THERE'S NO QUESTION
ABOUT THAT.
IT WAS, IN FACT,
THE BRITISH NEED,
DESPERATE NEED
FOR REVENUE.
IT WASN'T ILLOGICAL,
BY THE WAY,
AS THEY ARGUED IN
PARLIAMENT, THAT INDEED,
WHO HAD BENEFITED MOST FROM
THE EXPULSION OF THE FRENCH?
THE AMERICANS.
THE AMERICAN
COLONIES HAD.
AND WHY SHOULDN'T THEY
PAY SOME OF THE BURDEN
AND SOME OF THE COST?
OF COURSE, THE AMERICANS HAD
A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW.
BUT IN PARLIAMENT, IT
SEEMED PERFECTLY LOGICAL THAT
A BURDEN FOR THIS WAR SHOULD
BE PLACED UPON THE AMERICANS.

Alan says BACK TO CANADA.
PART OF CANADIAN HISTORY
WHICH I NEVER KNEW
WAS THAT IN 1763, IN
THE TREATY OF PARIS,
FRANCE IS OFFERED UPPER
AND LOWER CANADA.
THEY TAKE A PASS,
AND CHOOSE, INSTEAD,
A COUPLE OF
CARIBBEAN ISLANDS.
DID THEY BLOW
THEIR CHANCE TO BE,
NOT ONLY BE A FACTOR
IN NORTH AMERICA,
BUT PERHAPS TO CURTAIL
THE ASCENDANCY OF BRITAIN
IN THE EMPIRE OF
THE 19TH CENTURY?

William says IT'S ALL ABOUT
THE MONEY.
AND THE ISLANDS OF
MARTINIQUE AND GUADELOUPE,
WHICH HAD BEEN CAPTURED BY
THE BRITISH DURING THE WAR,
ARE EXTRAORDINARILY RICH.
THEY ARE SUGAR ISLANDS.
SUGAR IS WHITE GOLD
IN THE 18TH CENTURY.
CANADA IS A DEAD LOSS.

Alan says A FEW ACRES OF SNOW.

William repeats A FEW ACRES OF SNOW.
IT HAD BEEN A DEAD
LOSS FOR THE FRENCH,
SO WHEN THEY SEE THE
CHOICE HERE, THE FRENCH,
OF KEEPING CANADA OR
MARTINIQUE AND GUADELOUPE,
THEY DECIDE THAT
MARTINIQUE AND GUADELOUPE
IS A MUCH BETTER DEAL.
AND THE BRITISH AGREE.
WILLIAM PITT, WHO BY
THIS TIME, IN 1763,
IS OUT OF POWER, WILLIAM
PITT IS APPALLED.
HE IS ASTOUNDED.
HE'S ACTUALLY SICK.
AND THEY CARRY HIM INTO
COMMONS IN A LITTER
SO HE CAN PREACH
AGAINST THIS TREATY.
AND THE DESCRIPTIONS OF PITT'S
SPEECH AGAINST THE TREATY
ARE REALLY QUITE
REMARKABLE.
HE SPEAKS FOR HOURS.
EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, AS IT
SAYS IN SOME OF THE LETTERS
AND DIARIES, “EVERY
ONCE IN A WHILE,
Mr. PITT WAS
REFRESHED BY CORDIALS.”
AND PITT IS RAILING
AGAINST THIS -
RAILING AGAINST
THIS TREATY.
HE FINALLY DECLARES
IT TO BE THE PEACE
THAT PASSETH
UNDERSTANDING.
HE DOESN'T
UNDERSTAND IT.
HE DOESN'T
UNDERSTAND IT.
HE WANTS MARTINIQUE
AND GUADELOUPE.
HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND WHY
THEY ARE KEEPING CANADA.
BUT INDEED, THE FRENCH GET
MARTINIQUE AND GUADELOUPE,
AND THE BRITISH
GET CANADA.

Alan says NOW, YOU OFTEN HERE
CANADIANS SAY, YOU KNOW,
OUR HISTORY IS
SO BORING.
HOW DO YOU PERSUADE
CANADIANS OTHERWISE?

William says YOUR HISTORY IS
NOT BORING AT ALL.
IT'S INTRIGUING.
I WOULDN'T BE INTERESTED IN IT
IF IT WASN'T SO INTRIGUING.
AND I FIND, AS
A NEW ENGLANDER,
I GREW UP IN NEW ENGLAND,
I LIVE IN NEW ENGLAND,
AND OUR HISTORIES
ARE SO INTERTWINED.
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO SEPARATE,
CERTAINLY IN THE COLONIAL
PERIOD, OUR PEOPLES APART.
OH, NO, THE HISTORY OF CANADA
IS A FASCINATING STORY.
VERY DIFFERENT FROM
THE UNITED STATES.
VERY DIFFERENT INDEED.
AND I OFTEN WONDER,
AND I THINK,
PERHAPS EVERYONE DOES WONDER,
IF INDEED WHAT HAD HAPPENED
AT THE PLAINS OF ABRAHAM,
IF IT HAD GONE DIFFERENTLY,
WHERE WOULD WE BE?
WE, PROBABLY IN
THE UNITED STATES,
WOULD BE SINGING
“GOD SAVE THE QUEEN,”
AND YOU MIGHT STILL BE
SINGING “THE MARSEILLAISE.”
IT WOULD BE A VERY
DIFFERENT WORLD WE LIVE IN.

Alan says WILLIAM FOWLER, I
WANT TO THANK YOU
VERY MUCH FOR
JOINING ME.
IT'S BEEN A
REAL PLEASURE.

Watch: William Fowler on the Seven Years' War