Transcript: Peter C. Newman on The Secret Mulroney Tapes | Oct 17, 2005

Allan is in his mid fifties and has light brown hair, and a greying goatee. He wears
a black blazer and a white button up shirt.

Allan and Peter sit in a living room with a circular table between them. On the
table are a book and a mug.

Allan says THROUGHOUT YOUR CAREER
YOU'VE BEEN NO STRANGER
TO CONTROVERSY.
BUT YOUR MOST RECENT BOOK ON
BRIAN MULRONEY HAS CREATED
NOTHING SHORT OF AN UPROAR.
YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW,
JOURNALIST COLLEAGUES SAYING
YOU STABBED AN OLD
FRIEND IN THE BACK.
THE PRIME MINISTER HIMSELF
SAYING HE FEELS DEVASTATED
AND BETRAYED.
MILA SAYING YOU'VE DONE THIS
TO MAKE SURE THE BOOK CAME
OUT BEFORE BRIAN
WENT INTO THE GRAVE.
ARE YOU SURPRISED AT THE
REACTION TO THIS BOOK?
DID YOU ANTICIPATE
THIS AT ALL?

A caption appears on screen. It reads “Peter C. Newman. Author, ‘The Secret Mulroney
Tapes.”

Peter is in his sixties and has light brown hair and is clean-shaven. He wears a
black page hat backwards, a back jacket and a deep red turtleneck.”

Peter says NO, I THOUGHT IT WOULD
SINK WITHOUT A TRACE.
I'M NOT TOO SURPRISED.
YOU KNOW, NOBODY'S DONE THIS
BEFORE -- AND EVER WILL AGAIN.
AND THAT IS TO GET THAT
CLOSE TO A PRIME MINISTER.
THAT YOU ALMOST BECOME
HIS CONSCIENCE, OR HIS
PSYCHIATRIST, OR WHATEVER
YOU WANT TO CALL IT.
BUT THERE ARE NO WALLS.
WHENEVER A PRIME MINISTER SEES
A JOURNALIST, THERE IS ALWAYS
A WALL, AND IT'S PRETTY THICK.
THERE WERE NO WALLS.
98 INTERVIEWS, SOME LASTING
TWO OR THREE HOURS,
WITH NO WALLS.
THAT'S UNIQUE.
SO I'M NOT SURPRISED
IT CAUSED A FUSS.
I'M SORRY PEOPLE GOT ON THIS
BETRAYING KICK BECAUSE IT'S
JUST NOT TRUE.

Allan says WELL, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT.
BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS
THE ACTUAL PUBLICATION OF THE
BOOK IN THE MEDIA HAS ALMOST
BECOME A BIGGER STORY THAN
WHAT'S IN IT.

Peter says YEAH, AND I'M
SORRY ABOUT THAT.
I PUT A LOT OF WORK
INTO THAT BOOK.
THERE ARE 70,000 WORDS OF
ANALYSIS WRITTEN BY ME.
AND THE REST OF IT ARE THE
ACTUAL TRANSCRIPTS WHICH I
REDUCED FROM 1.8 MILLION
WORDS TO 450 PAGES.
AND I HAD TO TAKE OUT
REPETITIONS AND MEANINGLESS
TALKS WITH FRED TO SET
THAT KIND OF THING UP.
BUT THE MEAT OF IT IS THERE.

Allan says BUT PEOPLE ARE, THERE'S
ACTUALLY, FOR THE FIRST TIME
IN A DECADE, SOME SYMPATHY
TOWARDS BRIAN MULRONEY AS A
CONSEQUENCE OF THE BOOK.
EVERYONE WOULD TALK THAT WAY
IN AN UNGUARDED MOMENT TO
SOMEONE WHO THEY
CONSIDERED A FRIEND.

Peter says THERE SHOULD BE SYMPATHY.
I THINK HE WAS A
GOOD PRIME MINISTER.
AND IT COMES OUT.
AND WHAT COMES OUT HERE IS A
HUMAN BEING FOR THE FIRST TIME.
HE'S WITTY, HE'S
FUNNY, HE'S WARM,
BUT MOST OF ALL
HE'S HUMAN.
AND THAT WAS NOT THE IMAGE HE
PRESENTED TO PEOPLE WHEN HE
WAS IN OFFICE.

Allan says BUT YOU KNOW HOW THE MEDIA
WORKS BETTER THAN ANYONE.
YOU'VE BEEN THE EDITOR
OF THE TORONTO STAR,
MACLEANS MAGAZINE.
YOU KNEW THE MEDIA WOULD GLOM
ON TO THE SALACIOUS, DIRTY
BITS, INITIALLY.
AND THIS NOTION OF A BALANCED
PORTRAYAL WOULD BE TOUGH TO
GET THROUGH.

The caption changes to “Peter C. Newman. Author, ’The Secret Mulroney Tapes.”

Peter says THAT WAS TRUE INITIALLY.
BUT THERE'S A MUCH MORE
BALANCED VIEW OF THE BOOK NOW.
AND I'M HAPPY ABOUT THAT.
BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT.
THE POINT IS THIS IS THE
UNVARNISHED, UNDRESSED,
UNPLUGGED, WHATEVER YOU
WANT TO SAY, MULRONEY.
IT'S THE REAL MAN.
AND YOU, OF ALL
PEOPLE, KNOW THAT.
DIDN'T YOU FEEL YOU HEARD
HIM SAYING THOSE THINGS?

Allan says THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT,
FROM MY EXPERIENCE,
IT RINGS TRUE.
BUT ENOUGH OF ME, MORE OF YOU
BECAUSE KNOWING HIM ALSO,
THAT IT'S REALLY DOUBTFUL
THAT HE THOUGHT THESE
CONVERSATIONS WERE GOING TO
APPEAR VERBATIM IN A TEXT
IN THIS PUBLISHED FORM,
THAT HE WOULD HAVE EVER BEEN
THAT UNGUARDED.

Peter says WELL, THAT'S POSSIBLE.
ON THE OTHER HAND,
THERE WAS NO SECRET.
IT WAS ON THE RECORD.
EVERY TIME HE WOULD
SAY THIS IS OFF THE RECORD,
I WOULD TURN THE MACHINE
OFF, AND HE'D TELL ME
WHATEVER WAS
OFF THE RECORD.
THEN WE WENT BACK
ON THE RECORD.
YOU KNOW?
AND I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR
OF HIM TO ASSUME THAT I WOULD
'CLEAN UP', AS PEOPLE ARE
SAYING, CLEAN UP THE TAPES.

Allan says OR USE IT AS CONTEXT,
OR BACKGROUND.

Peter says I MEAN, WOULD ANY JOURNALIST
DISCARD THIS AND USE THE SAME
OLD PAP THAT USUALLY
COMES OUT OF HIS MOUTH?
I DON'T THINK SO.
I THINK THE PRIME MINISTER,
OR ANY PUBLIC FIGURE, HAS TO
STAND BEHIND WHAT HE SAYS,
AND THE WAY HE SAYS IT.
SO DID I CENSOR THEM?
NO, THIS IS IT.
THIS IS THE WAY IT CAME OUT.

Allan says WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT, I
MEAN, HE KNEW YOU, NOT SIMPLY
AS A JOURNALIST, BUT HE
KNEW YOU AS A PERSON.
YOU HAVE A LONG RELATIONSHIP
THAT GOES BACK SOME 50 YEARS.

Peter says THAT'S RIGHT.

Allan says HE WAS YOUR BEST MAN
AT ONE OF YOUR WEDDINGS.
HE WOULD HAVE HAD THE
GUARD WAY, WAY DOWN.

Peter says THAT'S NOT A VERY
SMALL COMPANY.
FIRST OF ALL, I HAD THREE
BEST MEN AT THAT WEDDING,
AND I'VE BEEN MARRIED FOUR
TIMES, SO FIGURE IT OUT.

Allan says STILL; IT'S A RELATIVELY --
YOU DID HAVE A RELATIONSHIP
THAT WENT BACK TO 1961.
HE TOLD YOU THINGS HE WOULDN'T
TELL ANY OTHER JOURNALIST,
I WOULD GUESS.

Peter says YEAH.
ONE REASON WAS, ONE SAFEGUARD
I GAVE HIM, AND I CERTAINLY
DID, WAS THAT NONE OF THIS
WOULD BE PUBLISHED WHILE
HE WAS IN OFFICE WHEN
IT COULD DO HIM HARM.
I WAITED 12 YEARS.
SO IN THAT SENSE, I
DID WHAT HE WANTED.

Allan says NOW, YOU'RE ON RECORD AS
SAYING THIS WAS NOT THE BOOK
YOU INITIALLY INTENDED TO
WRITE, WHICH WAS A FULL-BLOWN
AUTHORIZED BIOGRAPHY.

Peter says NOT AUTHORIZED.

Allan says NOT AUTHORIZED.
OKAY, BUT A
DEFINITIVE BIOGRAPHY.

Peter says NO, SORRY.
IT WAS GOING TO BE A
DEFINITIVE BIOGRAPHY OF HIS
STEWARDSHIP, THE WAY
RENEGADE IN POWER WAS OF DIEFENBAKER,
AND DISTEMPER OF OUR
TIMES WERE OF PEARSON.
BUT THEY WERE WRITTEN ABOUT
THE WHOLE ADMINISTRATION,
NOT JUST THE MAN.
AND THIS WAS
GOING TO BE, TOO.

Allan says AND YOU'VE SAID,
THIS CLEARLY IS NOT.
THIS BOOK.
WHAT WAS YOUR INTENTION
IN THIS BOOK HERE?

Peter says WELL, THIS BOOK WAS BORN OUT
OF THE DEATH OF THE OTHER ONE.
IT WAS GOING TO BE CALLED
THE BURDEN OF POWER.
BECAUSE I THINK POWER AT
THAT LEVEL IS A BURDEN.
AND IT WAS GOING TO BE BASED
PARTLY ON INTERVIEWS WITH HIM
AND HIS ENTOURAGE, BUT MOSTLY
ON THE DOCUMENTS BECAUSE I
DIDN'T WANT TO WAIT 30 YEARS
UNTIL THE ARCHIVES RELEASED
THE DOCUMENTS.
AND HE PROMISED ME THAT I WOULD
GET EVERYTHING EXCEPT WHAT
TOUCHED ON NATIONAL SECURITY.
AND HE WOULD GO DOWN TO THE
BASEMENT AT SUSSEX AND SHOW
ME ALL THE DOCUMENTS
I WAS GOING TO GET.
SO WHEN I CAME TO SEE HIM, IN
MONTREAL, BACK FROM OTTAWA,
AND OUT OF POWER, I SAID,
OKAY, I'LL DO THE BOOK NOW,
GIVE ME THE DOCUMENTS.
AND HE SAID, NO, I'M NOT GOING
TO GIVE YOU THE DOCUMENTS.
AND I SAID, WELL, THEN
I CAN'T DO THE BOOK.
AND HE SAID, WELL, YOU
CAN KEEP TALKING TO ME.
AND I SAID, NO, NO, YOU CAN'T
DO THE HISTORY OF TEN YEARS
IN THE LIFE OF A COUNTRY
THROUGH ONE VOICE.
YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE
SOME DOCUMENTATION.
AND ESPECIALLY HIM.
IT'S THE IRISHNESS.
THE EXAGGERATIONS, THE BOASTS,
AND ALL THE THINGS ARE THERE,
AND THAT'S NOT HISTORY.
I WANT TO DO REAL POPULAR
HISTORY OF THE REGIME.
SO BURDEN OF POWER DIED,
AND I THEN HAD THESE TAPES.
THEN I HEARD NEXT YEAR HE IS
GOING TO BE COMING OUT WITH
HIS OWN AUTOBIOGRAPHY.

SO I THOUGHT, WELL, IF
ANYTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN
TO THESE, I'D BETTER
GET THEM OUT FAST.
SO I DID.

Allan says NOW, FOR ALL THE CONTROVERSY,
I MEAN THE FACT OF THE MATTER
IS YOU'VE PROBABLY SPENT MORE
TIME, AS A JOURNALIST, WITH A
PRIME MINISTER, THIS PARTICULAR
INSTANCE, BRIAN MULRONEY,
THAN ANY OTHER PERSON EVER.
SO YOU HAVE A RARE
INSIGHT INTO HIM.
SO I WANT TO TALK
ABOUT THE PSYCHOLOGY.

Peter says SURE.

Allan says AND FIRST, YOU SAID,
HE BUGS US STILL.
THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT HIS
PERSONALITY THAT ENGAGES PEOPLE.
ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?
WHY DO YOU THINK TO THIS
DAY HE CAN EMOTE THAT WAY?

Peter says WELL, I GUESS THE HATERS ARE
REALLY THE DRIVING FORCE HERE
BECAUSE THEY FEEL MORE
STRONGLY IN THEIR HATE THAN
THE LOVERS DO IN THEIR LOVE.
AND I'VE NEVER QUITE FIGURED
OUT WHY HE WAS THAT HATED.
WHY IT WAS SO PERSONAL.
YOU CAN GO INTO HIS
EXAGGERATIONS, INTO HIS
BOASTS, AND INTO HIS SORT OF
AMERICAN STYLE OF RUNNING THE
OFFICE, BUT THAT DOESN'T
REALLY EXPLAIN IT.
MY THEORY, WHICH IS NOT A VERY
GOOD THEORY BUT, YOU KNOW,
CANADIANS HATE PERFECTION.
THEY CAN'T STAND IT BECAUSE
THEIR LIVES AREN'T PERFECT,
AND THEY WANT TO
CONNECT WITH SOMEBODY
WHO'S NOT PERFECT EITHER.
AND HE WAS PERFECT
AT TWO LEVELS.

A clip shows Brian Mulroney and his dancing wife then the clip changes to his
wife and his family, of two sons and a daughter at a rally in front of a microphone
and camera flashes.

Peter continues FIRST OF ALL, THE
WIFE AND THE FAMILY.
WHICH WAS VERY REAL.
VERY REAL.
BUT ALSO VERY PERFECT.
AND, SECONDLY, THIS GOD
DAMN PUBLIC IMAGE THAT HE
PROJECTED, WHICH WAS BASED
ON HIS MENTORSHIP BY
DANIEL JOHNSON, THE LEADER OF
THE UNION NATIONALE, AND ALL
THOSE QUEBEC POLITICIAN OF THAT
VINTAGE HAD THIS ATTITUDE.

A clip shows Brian and his wife walking through the paparazzi.

Peter says EVERY HAIR IN PLACE, EVERY
GESTURE REHEARSED, EVERY
SYLLABLE OF EVERY
SPEECH JUST RIGHT.
THE BIG BLACK CADILLACS.
ALL THAT STUFF.
AND THAT'S HOW HE
APPEARED IN PUBLIC.

Allan says AND A BELIEF THAT'S HOW THE
POPULATION WANTED THEIR
PRIME MINISTERS
TO LOOK AND BEHAVE.

Peter says THAT'S RIGHT.

Allan says AND MAYBE THEY DID IN RURAL
QUEBEC IN THOSE DAYS.
BUT SURE AS NOT IN THE END OF
THE 20th CENTURY IN CANADA.

WHAT WAS HIS GREATEST
STRENGTH, DO YOU THINK?

Peter says HIS GREATEST STRENGTH?
HIS GREATEST STRENGTH IN MY
VIEW WAS SURVIVING ALL THAT
SHIT THAT CAME DOWN, YOU KNOW.
HE WAS EVERY DAY, NOT EVERY
DAY, BUT EVERY MONTH THERE
WOULD BE SOME KIND OF SCANDAL.
12 MINISTERS RESIGNED
DURING HIS TIME.
NO FAULT OF HIS.
AS OPPOSED TO THE CHRETIEN
GOVERNMENT, WHEN YOU HAD AN
ORGANIZED CORRUPT WING OF THE
PARTY, THAT WAS RIGHT ACROSS
THE PARTY.
THAT WASN'T INDIVIDUALS
DOING THINGS.
IN MULRONEY'S TIME,
IT WAS INDIVIDUALS.
AND YES, MANY OF THEM
SHOULD HAVE GONE TO JAIL,
AND SOME OF THEM DID.
BUT HE TOOK THAT
ALL ONTO HIMSELF.
HE WAS THE LIGHTNING ROD.
AND I THINK THAT WAS
REALLY HARD ON HIM.
AND I ADMIRED HIM FOR
SURVIVING BECAUSE I WOULD SEE
HIM DURING THOSE TIMES, AND HE
STILL HAD A TENSE OF HUMOUR.
I ONCE ACCUSED HIM OF
SELLING OUT CANADA.
AND HE LOOKED AT ME SORT
OF SIDEWAYS AND HE SAID,
WHO WOULD BUY IT?

Allan says GREATEST WEAKNESS?

Peter says WELL, HIS GREATEST WEAKNESS
WAS HIS IMAGE OF THE MEDIA.
BECAUSE HE BLAMED
EVERYTHING ON THE MEDIA.
IF IT WAS RAINING, IT
WAS THE MEDIA'S FAULT.
AND IT WAS SO INGRAINED.
YOU KNOW THE STORY IN HERE
ABOUT HIM, EVEN DURING HIS
SLEEP, HE HAD SPEAKERS IN HIS
PILLOW AND HE COULD LISTEN TO
THE NEWS ALL NIGHT.
HE TRULY BELIEVED THAT
THE MEDIA HAD AN AGENDA,
WHICH WAS TO
BE AGAINST HIM.
AND I KEPT TELLING
HIM, THAT'S NOT TRUE.
THE MEDIA'S AGENDA IS TO BE
AGAINST PEOPLE IN POWER, PERIOD.
AND, OF COURSE, I TURNED OUT TO
BE WRONG BECAUSE THEY CERTAINLY
TREATED CHRETIEN A LOT
BETTER THAN THEY TREATED HIM.
AND, AGAIN, I THINK IT'S PART
OF THAT JEALOUSY, THE ENVY,
OF THE PROFESSION.

Allan says NOW, HE IN MANY RESPECTS WAS
AN OLD STYLE POLITICIAN, YOU
KNOW, THE OLD WARD HEELER
TYPE, WORRY ABOUT WHAT THE
MEDIA WAS SAYING, AND WHAT
ARE THE BOYS SAYING ALL THIS
TIME, YET YOU'VE GOT THIS
AGENDA: FREE TRADE, GST --
SOUTH AFRICA.
MEECH LAKE.
NONE OF THIS STUFF CAME OUT OF
MY POLLING, I GUARANTEE IT.
NEVER DID A POLL THAT SAID --
WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?
WHAT WAS THE MOTIVATION, DO
YOU THINK, ON HIS PART TO
TACKLE THINGS THAT CLEARLY
WERE GOING TO BE UNPOPULAR
AND DIFFICULT?

Peter says THE MOTIVATION
IS VERY SIMPLE.
HE WAS LOOKING AT HISTORY.
HISTORY WOULD RECORD THAT
HE DID UNPOPULAR THINGS.
THAT THIS PRIME MINISTER, WHO
WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A SLAVE OF
POLLS, NOT TO MENTION YOU,
BUT THAT WAS HIS IMAGE.

Allan says YOU THINK IT WAS
THAT CALCULATING?

Peter says YEAH.
AND HE STILL FEELS THAT WAY.
HE STILL FEELS SOMEWHERE HE
WILL BE BEATIFIED AND HISTORY
WILL GIVE HIM A FAIR VERDICT.
NOW, WHAT I KEPT TELLING HIM,
AND I STILL WOULD TELL HIM IF
HE ASKED ME IS THAT
HISTORY IS NEUTRAL.
HISTORY DOESN'T GO
THIS WAY OR THAT WAY.
HISTORY JUST RECORDS
WHAT HAPPENED.
AND IT'S THE INTERPRETATION
OF HISTORY THAT'S IMPORTANT
AND WHO INTERPRETS IT.
BUT HISTORY IS NOT
GOING TO BE HIS SAVIOUR.
HISTORY IS GOING TO BE
AMBIGUOUS, AS IT ALWAYS IS.

Allan says WELL, BE AN ARMCHAIR
PSYCHOLOGIST.
I MEAN, WHY THE OBSESSION
WITH REWRITING HISTORY?
BECAUSE YOU CERTAINLY SAW IT
AFTER HE LEFT OFFICE, CONSTANT
INTERVENTION, ON THE RECORD,
TRYING TO MAKE THINGS APPEAR
BETTER THAN HE BELIEVED THE
CURRENT RECORD HAD THEM.
Peter says THEY ARE ALL LIKE
THAT, YOU KNOW?
TRUDEAU, FIRST TIME HE RESIGNED,
HAD BASICALLY DONE NOTHING.
AND PEOPLE WROTE HIS
POLITICAL OBITUARY, SAID,
WELL HE DID NOTHING.
HE SAID, MY GOD, I'VE GOT TO
GET INTO THE HISTORY BOOKS.
SO THEN HE DID THE CHARTER,
YOU KNOW, DID ALL THOSE THINGS
IN '81 AND '82.

Allan says NATIONAL ENERGY PROGRAM.

Peter says NATIONAL ENERGY PROGRAM,
WELL, I WON'T NECESSARILY
INCLUDE THAT, BUT
CERTAINLY THE CHARTER WAS
HISTORY MAKING, AND THE BILL
OF RIGHTS, ALL THOSE THINGS.

Allan says SURE.

Peter says SO THEY ALL HAVE
THEIR EYE ON HISTORY.
AND I DON'T BLAME THEM.
I MEAN, WHY BE PRIME MINISTER
AND END UP LIKE CHRETIEN WHO IS
NOT EVEN GOING TO BE
A FOOTNOTE, IF THAT.

Peter says VIRTUALLY NO ONE WHO HAS
BEEN SLIGHTED BY THIS BOOK
HAS RESPONDED --
OTHER THAN KIM CAMPBELL.
WHO HAD A VERY VIGOROUS
RESPONSE TO THE ALLEGATION
THAT SHE WAS VAIN AND SCREWING
AROUND DURING THE 1993 CAMPAIGN,
AND BASICALLY DEVASTATED
THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY.
SHE CLAIMS THIS WAS REALLY
A SITUATION SHE INHERITED
FROM BRIAN MULRONEY.
AND IF ANYONE'S REALLY GOT TO
TAKE THE BLAME FOR THE 1993
DEVASTATION OF THE PROGRESSIVE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY,
IT'S MULRONEY, NOT HER.
WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE?

A clip shows Kim Campbell walking through paparazzi, with short blonde hair,
earrings, and a black jacket with white blouse.

Peter says WELL, SHE OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T
RESPOND TO HIS RALLYING CRY,
YOU KNOW, KEEP YOUR
PECKER UP, KIM.
BUT SERIOUSLY, LOOK, I REGARD
THE 1993 ELECTION AS A
PLEBISCITE ON BRIAN MULRONEY,
NOT ON KIM CAMPBELL.
AND CANADIANS BY THEN
REALLY HATED HIM.
HIS POPULARITY WAS BELOW
10 PERCENT AT ONE POINT.
AND THE ONLY WAY THEY COULD
EXPRESS THAT HATRED, HAVE
REVENGE, IS TO VOTE AGAINST
THE PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE
PARTY, EVEN THOUGH HE
WASN'T LEADING IT ANYMORE.
SO IT'S NOT
FAIR TO BLAME KIM.
ON THE OTHER HAND, I WAS
PRESENT WHEN KIM GAVE THAT
SPEECH TO THE HOMELESS IN
VANCOUVER, AND LOOKED AROUND
AND SAID, I TOO HAVE
HAD MY DISAPPOINTMENTS.
I WANTED TO BE A
CONCERT CELLIST.
IT'S NOT ONE OF THE
GREAT CAMPAIGN SPEECHES.
SO PART OF IT WAS HER FAULT,
BUT MOST OF IT WAS JUST PEOPLE
VOTING AGAINST
HER PREDECESSOR.

Allan says NOW, YOU ALSO SAY HE'S
PROBABLY, IF YOU HAD TO RANK
PRIME MINISTERS, HE'D
BE IN THE TOP FIVE.
THAT'S PRETTY HIGH PRAISE.

Peter says TOP HALF.
YEAH, WELL I DO THINK SO.
IN TERMS OF ACTIVISM.
SO MANY PRIME MINISTERS JUST
SIT THERE AND GET TO THE
OFFICE ON TIME, AND THEY THINK
THAT'S BEING PRIME MINISTER.
WELL, HE DIDN'T DO THAT.
HE WAS ALWAYS IN TROUBLE.
HE WAS IN TROUBLE BECAUSE
HE WAS DOING THINGS.
NOT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, HE
WAS JUST SITTING THERE AND
WATCHING THE TROOPS GO BY.
HE WAS THE MOST
ACTIVIST PRIME MINISTER.
MUCH MORE THAN TRUDEAU, FOR
EXAMPLE, WHO GETS CREDIT
SINCE PEARSON.
PEARSON WAS LIKE THAT.
PEARSON LEFT A GREAT LEGACY.

Allan says NOW, LIKE THE PRIME MINISTER
MULRONEY, YOU'VE BEEN AROUND
FOR A LONG TIME.
AND YOU'VE BEEN GIVEN
INCREDIBLE CREDIT FOR WRITING
BOOKS LIKE RENEGADE IN POWER,
CANADIAN ESTABLISHMENT,
COMPANY OF ADVENTURES.
THIS HAS CAUSED A REAL
CONTROVERSY ABOUT YOU.
DO YOU REGRET -- DO YOU THINK
THIS IS GOING TO AFFECT YOUR
LEGACY IN ANY WAY?

Peter says NOT AT ALL.
I THINK WHEN PEOPLE UNDERSTAND
WHAT HAPPENED, YOU KNOW,
WHICH WAS A SERIES OF STEPS
THAT LED ME TO THIS BOOK,
THEY'LL TREAT IT
LIKE ANY OF MY BOOKS.
AND ALL OF MY BOOKS ARE REALLY
CONCERNED NOT WITH PEOPLE,
BUT WITH POWER.
THIS IS A STUDY OF
POWER AT THE SUMMIT.
THIS IS A STUDY OF HOW A MAN
HANDLED POWER FOR TEN YEARS,
HANDLED IT AND MISHANDLED IT.
THAT'S WHAT I DO.
THAT'S WHAT ALL MY
BOOKS ARE ABOUT.

Allan says PETER C. NEWMAN, THANK
YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME.
AS ALWAYS, IT'S
A REAL PLEASURE.

Peter says THANKS, ALLAN.

Watch: Peter C. Newman on The Secret Mulroney Tapes