Transcript: Mike Harris on the Common Sense Revolution | May 12, 1994

Mike Harris sits in the Studio 2 television studio. He’s in his late forties, clean-shaven, with short side-parted gray hair. He’s wearing a gray suit, white shirt, and checked red tie.

Then, Steve Paikin appears on screen. He’s in his thirties, clean-shaven, with short curly brown hair. He’s wearing a checkered green tweed suit, gray shirt, and colourful tie.

He says MIKE HARRIS AND HIS
COMMON SENSE REVOLUTION.
THAT IS THE TORY ELECTION
PLATFORM IN A NUTSHELL.
A REVOLUTION OF DEEP TAX CUTS
AND DEEPER SPENDING CUTS.
DOES IT MARK A SHARP
MOVE TO THE RIGHT AWAY FROM
THE CENTRE OF THE POLITICAL
SPECTRUM IN ONTARIO?
OR IS IT A PLATFORM IN
TUNE WITH THESE TIMES?
MIKE HARRIS ENTERED PROVINCIAL
POLITICS 13 YEARS AGO,
WINNING HIS SEAT IN NORTH BAY
FOR THEN PREMIER BILL DAVIS.
TODAY, HE LEADS A
PARTY MUCH DIFFERENT
FROM THE RED TORIES
OF THE DAVIS ERA.
NOW, IN A FEW MINUTES, WE'LL
START TAKING YOUR PHONE CALLS
FOR THE TORY LEADER.
AND FOR YOU TO REACH OUR
STUDIO, THE NUMBER IS...

A caption reads “1-800 STUDIO. 1-800-478-8346.”

Steve continues AND WE'LL TAKE YOUR CALLS
IN JUST A FEW MINUTES' TIME.
BUT FIRST, WE ARE PLEASED
TO WELCOME TO
STUDIO 2,
THE LEADER FOR THE PAST
FOUR-AND-A-HALF YEARS OF THE
ONTARIO PROGRESSIVE
CONSERVATIVES, MIKE HARRIS.
THANKS FOR BEING
HERE TONIGHT.
WE APPRECIATE IT.

Mike says THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
DELIGHTED TO BE HERE.

Steve says LET US EXPLORE A BIT ABOUT
YOUR CONVERSION, IF YOU LIKE,
ON THE ROAD TO DAMASCUS, IF
IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
YOU WERE A BILL
DAVIS TORY, I GUESS,
WHEN YOU FIRST CAME
INTO THE HOUSE.

Mike says I STILL AM A BILL
DAVIS TORY, BY THE WAY,
I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT.

Steve says BUT WOULD A BILL DAVIS TORY
PROPOSE SOMETHING LIKE
THE COMMON SENSE
REVOLUTION?
I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS
THAT THIS LOOKS A LONG WAY
FROM WHAT BILL DAVIS WOULD
HAVE GONE TO THE PEOPLE WITH
IN AN ELECTION CAMPAIGN.
SO WHAT'S HAPPENED TO YOU TO
MAKE YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND?

A caption appears on screen. It reads "Mike Harris. Progressive Conservative Leader."

Mike says I THINK IT IS QUITE A
WAYS DIFFERENCE FROM WHAT
BILL DAVIS WOULD HAVE
CAMPAIGNED ON 13 YEARS AGO,
AND DID CAMPAIGN ON 20 YEARS
AGO, THROUGH TO 13 YEARS AGO.
I HAVEN'T CHANGED.
WHAT'S CHANGED IS WE
HAVE HAD TEN YEARS,
THE PERIOD WE CALL
THE LOST DECADE,
OF SOME 65 NEW TAX
INCREASES, MASSIVE BUILD-UP
IN GOVERNMENT SPENDING, A
SIGNIFICANT INTERVENTION
BY GOVERNMENT INTO
THE MARKETPLACE,
AND SO WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN
NOW IS TO RESTORE THE BALANCE
THAT BILL DAVIS HAD
THROUGHOUT THAT PERIOD OF TIME.
WE DO NEED A CORRECTION
FROM THIS POLITICS
OF THE PAST TEN YEARS.
WE NEED MAJOR CHANGE TO
GET ONTARIO BACK ON TRACK.

Steve says AND SORT OF A MODERATE
APPROACH, IN YOUR JUDGMENT,
WON'T DO IT ANYMORE.

Mike says NO, I THINK YOU CAN
GRADUALLY GET INTO-
IT'S LIKE A
COMPANY, STEVE.
A COMPANY, LET'S SAY, GETS
INTO TROUBLE OR GOES BANKRUPT,
OR ON THE VERGE
OF BANKRUPTCY.
IT'S NEVER USUALLY ANY
ONE DECISION THEY MADE.
IF THEY HAVE TOO MANY
EMPLOYEES FOR THE REVENUE
THEY'RE GENERATING, IT'S
NOT ANY ONE EMPLOYEE
YOU POINT A FIGURE AT.
IT'S GRADUALLY OVER
A PERIOD OF TIME.
SO YOU CAN SLOWLY BECOME
BANKRUPT, YOU CAN SLOWLY,
AS A PROVINCE, BECOME
UNCOMPETITIVE.
AND IT'S BEEN OVER
A PERIOD OF TIME.
BUT I THINK ONCE YOU'RE
IN A SITUATION WHERE
YOU'RE THE HIGHEST TAXED,
MOST HEAVILY REGULATED,
WHERE OUR PRIVATE SECTOR JOB
CREATORS AND INVESTORS
ARE SAYING, ONTARIO IS NOT A
GOOD PLACE TO DO BUSINESS,
YOU BETTER FIX THAT JUST
AS QUICK AS YOU CAN.

Steve says BOB RAE'S RED
FLAGS JUST WENT UP.
HE'LL SAY, WE'RE NOT THE
HIGHEST TAXED JURISDICTION,
WE'RE NOT THE MOST
REGULATED JURISDICTION,
AND CAR COMPANIES ARE
SPENDING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS
INVESTING IN HERE.
SO HOW CAN YOU BE
RIGHT AND HE WRONG?

Mike says WELL, I GIVE YOU LOTS OF
REASONS WHERE BOB RAE IS WRONG.
BOB RAE VERY OFTEN LISTENS
TO HIMSELF AND SAYING, NO,
WE'RE NOT AN
ANTI-BUSINESS GOVERNMENT.
BUT 99 PERCENT OF THE BUSINESS
PEOPLE ARE TELLING US THAT.
INCLUDING THE
AUTOMOBILE COMPANIES.
THEY'RE SAYING THEY COULD DO
A LOT MORE IN THIS PROVINCE
THAN THEY'RE DOING TODAY.

Steve says WERE IT NOT FOR...?

Mike says WERE IT NOT FOR BILL
40 LABOUR LEGISLATION.
WERE IT NOT FOR A LOT OF
PAPERWORK AND RED TAPE AND
TAXES, AND SOME OF THE OTHER
FEES AND WHATNOT ARE THERE.
BUT THE AUTOMOBILE
INDUSTRY, BY AND LARGE,
HAS BEEN THE NORTHERN STATES,
VERSUS, DETROIT, MICHIGAN,
THE NORTHERN STATES
VERSUS ONTARIO.
THE NORTHERN STATES AREN'T
VERY COMPETITIVE NOW EITHER,
AND THE NEW COMPETITION
IN THE AUTO INDUSTRY
IS DOWN THE EASTERN SEABOARD
THROUGH THE CAROLINAS,
VIRGINIA, TENNESSEE,
MEXICO.
NEITHER ONE OF US ARE
THAT COMPETITIVE
WITH THOSE JURISDICTIONS.
SO WE NEED TO BE WORLD
COMPETITIVE TODAY,
AND WE'RE NOT.

Steve says OKAY, LET ME TRY
THIS WITH YOU.
BILL DAVIS' GENIUS,
THEY SAID, OVER THE YEARS,
TO THE EXTENT THAT HE HAD IT
WAS HE WAS ABLE TO SPLIT
HIS OPPOSITION AND OCCUPY THAT
MIDDLE GROUND WHERE, YOU KNOW,
IF HE HAD TO PUSH LEFT
A LITTLE BIT HE COULD,
IF HE HAD TO PUSH RIGHT
A LITTLE BIT HE COULD,
BUT EITHER WAY, HIS
OPPONENTS WERE MARGINALIZED.
THE WISE GUYS, THE POLITICAL
ELITES, THE HISTORIANS,
THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPOSED
TO KNOW ABOUT THESE THINGS
SAY YOU'RE FLYING IN THE
FACE OF WHAT HAS LED
TO ELECTORAL SUCCESS IN THIS
PROVINCE FOR, YOU KNOW,
SINCE THE TURN OF THE
CENTURY, WHICH IS TO OCCUPY
THAT NICE MIDDLE GROUND.
WHAT DO YOU KNOW
THAT THEY DON'T KNOW?

Mike says WELL, I'LL TELL YOU.
AND BILL DAVIS ENDORSES THE
COMMON SENSE REVOLUTION,
AND MIKE HARRIS
AND THE AGENDA,
AND CERTAINLY SAID SO
AS RECENTLY IN LONDON.
BECAUSE HE KNOWS THERE ARE
CHANGES THAT HAVE TO BE MADE.
TWO POLITICAL PARTIES,
THE LIBERAL PARTY AND
THE NDP PARTY, IN ONTARIO,
HAVE MOVED SO FAR LEFT,
HAVE PUSHED ONTARIO TO THE
BRINK OF BEING UNCOMPETITIVE.
12 HEAD OFFICES, I THINK,
AT LAST COUNT LEFT HERE
AND WENT TO MONCTON,
NEW BRUNSWICK.
YOU KNOW, THEY USED TO SAY
IN THE MARITIMES AND
THE PRAIRIES, WE ENVY YOU,
OR WE ALMOST HATE YOU
IN ONTARIO BECAUSE YOU GET ALL
THE INVESTMENT, ALL THE JOBS,
AND ALL THE WEALTH, AND IT'S
HAPPENING THE OTHER WAY NOW.
SO THIS RIGHT-LEFT IS A
VERY, IT'S A DIFFICULT
ARGUMENT TO COMPREHEND.
AM I RIGHT OF LYN
McLEOD AND BOB RAE?
CERTAINLY ON TAXATION AND
THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT
AND ECONOMIC POLICY,
I CLEARLY AM.
BUT AM I RIGHT OF THE
PEOPLE OF ONTARIO?
I THINK NOT.

Steve says YOU THINK THEY'RE
OVER THERE WITH YOU NOW?

Mike says NO, THEY HAVEN'T MOVED.
THEY'RE STILL THERE
SAYING YOU KNOW,
LET'S HAVE THE RIGHT BALANCE
OF GOVERNMENT PRIVATE SECTOR.
WHAT'S HAPPENED IS THE LIBERAL
PARTY AND THE NDP PARTY
HAVE MOVED SO FAR
TOWARDS BIG GOVERNMENT,
UNSUSTAINABLE GOVERNMENT,
HUGE DEFICITS,
TAXES NOW MAKING US
VERY UNCOMPETITIVE,
THAT THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO
ARE SAYING IS THERE ANYBODY
THAT AGREES WITH US IN
THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD?
AND SO MY POLICIES ON
ECONOMICS MAY LOOK RIGHT WING
TO THE LIBERALS
AND TO THE NDP.
I DON'T THINK, IF THEY
ARE EXAMINED STRAIGHT UP,
AND THE PEOPLE LOOK AT THEM,
THAT THEY'RE RIGHT WING
OF THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO.

Steve says OKAY.
LET'S SEE HOW SPECIFIC WE CAN
GET YOU TO BE ON WHAT'S IN-
I UNDERSTAND THE FINANCIAL
TARGETS THAT ARE IN
THE COMMON SENSE REVOLUTION,
THE 20 PERCENT SPENDING CUTS
AND THE 30 PERCENT
TAX CUTS.

Mike says 20 PERCENT OF
NON-PARTY SPENDING.
WE EXEMPT SOME SPENDING,
BY THE WAY, FROM THAT.
AND OUR CUTS ARE
OUT OF OTHER AREAS.

Steve says I NEED TO KNOW WHAT
YOU'RE GOING TO CUT.
IN STUFF THAT IS
NON-PRIORITY SPENDING,
AS YOU DESCRIBED
IT, WHAT GOES?

Mike says WE START WITH
POLITICIANS.
THERE'S TOO MANY
POLITICIANS.
SO THERE IS A
24 PERCENT REDUCTION
IN NUMBER OF POLITICIANS.

Steve says YOU AND I KNOW THAT IS GOING
TO SAVE ABOUT TEN BUCKS.

Mike says NO, THAT WILL SAVE
MILLIONS AND MILLIONS
AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

Steve says YOU WANT TO MOVE FROM 130
POLITICIANS TO 99 POLITICIANS.

Mike says AND 24 PERCENT FEWER
MUNICIPAL POLITICIANS,
REGIONAL POLITICIANS, TRUSTEES,
BOARDS, AGENCIES, COMMISSIONS.
WE'RE JUST LOOKING FOR
REDUCTION OF ABOUT A QUARTER
THROUGHOUT ALL OF THAT.
THAT AUTOMATICALLY LEADS TO
A SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION
IN THE NUMBER OF BUREAUCRATS
WHO DO NOTHING MORE
THAN SUPPORT POLITICIANS.
WHICH IS SIGNIFICANT.
WE'RE LOOKING AT A DOWNSIZING
IN THE HOME OFFICES,
IF YOU LIKE, ACROSS.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IN EDUCATION,
WE'RE LOOKING FOR SOME CUTS
IN EDUCATION SPENDING.
NOT IN THE CLASSROOM, NOT
IN THE NUMBERS OF TEACHERS,
NOT IN WHAT GOES ON
IN THE CLASSROOM,
BUT IN THE NUMBER OF TRUSTEES,
NUMBERS OF ADMINISTRATORS
IN THE ADMINISTRATION SIDE.
STEVE, THIS IS WHAT
BUSINESS HAS DONE.
AND THIS IS WHAT SUCCESSFUL
JURISDICTIONS HAVE DONE.
THEY'VE NOT CUT IN THE
BOTTOM, IN THE FRONT LINES,
THEY HAVE REDUCED
SUBSTANTIALLY IN THE
MIDDLE LINES, IN THE
MANAGEMENT AREAS,
AND STREAMLINED, VERY,
VERY EFFECTIVELY.

Steve says OKAY, GIVE ME
SOME MORE.
GIVE ME SOME MORE.
IS THERE MONEY TO BE
SAVED IN HEALTHCARE?

Mike says THERE ARE A NUMBER OF SAVINGS
TO BE ACHIEVED IN HEALTHCARE,
BUT WE ACTUALLY COMMIT
TO SPEND THEM ALL
IN IMPROVED HEALTHCARE.
SO THERE IS NOT A NICKEL CUT
OUT OF THE HEALTHCARE BUDGET.

Steve says OKAY, JUSTICE.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CUT
FROM COPS, I KNOW THAT.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO
CUT FROM THE COURTS.

Mike says THERE ARE A MINIMAL AMOUNT
OF REDUCTIONS IN JUSTICE
IN SOME OF THE SPENDING ON, OHH,
THIRD-TIME OFFENDERS' APPEALS,
AND ABILITY TO PICK AND
CHOOSE LEGAL AID LAWYERS,
AND SOME OF THOSE AREAS.
BUT BY AND LARGE,
NOT IN JUSTICE.

Steve says SOCIAL ASSISTANCE.

Mike says WELL, BIG CUTS
IN WELFARE.
WELFARE SPENDING IN
'82 WAS 950 MILLION dollars.
NOW, IT'S 7 BILLION dollars.
AND RATES ARE ABOUT
35 PERCENT HIGHER
THAN THE REST OF CANADA.

Steve says THAT'S BECAUSE THERE
ARE PROBABLY 10 TIMES
AS MANY PEOPLE ON WELFARE
IN THIS PROVINCE
THAN THE REST OF CANADA.

Mike says NO, OUR RATES,
OUR RATES, STEVE.

Steve says THE AMOUNT PAID OUT.
THE PAID OUT IS
STILL TOO HIGH.

Mike says THE AMOUNT PAID OUT IS
ABOUT 35 PERCENT HIGHER
THAN ALL OTHER PROVINCES
WHERE NOBODY HAS TOLD ME
ANYBODY IS STARVING.
IT'S DIFFICULT,
IT'S A CHALLENGE,
BUT THE FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE IS
TO GET OUR WELFARE RATES
BACK IN LINE WITH THE
REST OF THE COUNTRY.

Steve says AND YOU WOULD TAKE
WHAT PERCENTAGE OFF
WHERE IT IS RIGHT NOW?

Mike says WELL, IT DEPENDS
ON THE CATEGORY.
IT'S NOT FAIR TO
TAKE A PERCENTAGE,
BUT HERE'S WHAT WE
ARE GOING TO DO.
WE'RE GOING TO SAY ONTARIO
WILL HAVE WELFARE RATES,
WE'LL TAKE THE AVERAGE OF
THE OTHER NINE PROVINCES,
PLUS TEN PERCENT.
THAT WILL BE A
SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION.

Steve says THAT WILL MOVE YOU FROM
7 BILLION dollars TO WHAT?

Mike says NO, NO, THAT'S
PART OF IT.
WORK FAIR, LEARN
FAIR, TRAIN FAIR.
WE'RE GOING TO MAKE
THOSE MANDATORY.
THAT IF YOU WANT
WELFARE IN ONTARIO,
OR YOU FEEL YOU NEED IT, AN
ASSESSMENT WILL BE MADE,
AND THEN WE'LL SAY, OKAY,
WELFARE IS TO BE TEMPORARY.
IT'S NOT TO BE PERMANENT.
ALL ABLE-BODIED PEOPLE WILL
BE REQUIRED TO GO TO WORK,
DO SOMETHING, HELP
THEIR COMMUNITIES,
OR GET EDUCATION OR
UPGRADING OR TRAINING,
IN ORDER TO RECEIVE
THEIR WELFARE.

Steve says TRAINING AND EDUCATION AND
ALL OF THAT STUFF COSTS MONEY.

Mike says YES.

Steve says HOW MUCH SAVINGS CAN ACTUALLY
BE REALIZED FROM THIS?

Mike says WELL, IN THOSE JURISDICTIONS
THAT HAVE BROUGHT IT IN,
SUBSTANTIAL BECAUSE THERE
ARE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE
WHO ARE NOT GETTING BACK
INTO THE WORKFORCE,
ARE NOT GETTING JOBS,
THEY HAVE DROPPED OUT.
EVERYBODY KNOWS, THERE'S A
SAYING IN JOBS, BY THE WAY,
AND THEY COME TO MY OFFICE.
AND I SAY, WHY ARE YOU
COMING TO ME FOR A JOB?
THEY SAY, IT'S NOT WHAT YOU
KNOW, IT'S WHO YOU KNOW.
AND I USED TO ALWAYS SAY,
YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT TRUE,
THAT'S NOT TRUE,
IT'S WHAT YOU KNOW.
IT'S FAIR OUT THERE.
IT'S THIS AND THAT.
I DON'T SAY THAT ANYMORE.
IT'S WHO YOU KNOW.
AND I SAY TO PEOPLE,
WHO DO YOU KNOW?
WHO DO YOU KNOW
THAT'S HIRING?
ARE YOU OUT THERE?
ARE YOU VISIBLE?
ARE YOU BEING
SEEN BY EMPLOYERS,
BY POTENTIAL EMPLOYERS?
IF YOU'RE SITTING AT HOME
DOING NOTHING, YOU'RE NOT.
YOU'RE OUT OF THE MAINSTREAM.
YOU'RE NOT GETTING
THE WORK SKILLS.
YOU'RE NOT GETTING
THE TRAINING,
YOU'RE NOT BEING SEEN.
SO WE BELIEVE THE LONG-TERM
POTENTIAL SAVINGS ARE DRAMATIC.
AND LISTEN, MY GOAL, THE
COMMON SENSE REVOLUTION,
IT'S A GROWTH PLAN,
IT'S A JOBS' PLAN,
IT'S A PROSPERITY PLAN.
MY GOAL IS TO TRY AND
FIND A JOB FOR EVERYBODY.
EVERYBODY.

Steve says GOVERNMENT BUDGET
RIGHT NOW, ANNUALLY,
IS ABOUT 55 BILLION?

Mike says 55 BILLION.

Steve says YOU WOULD LIKE TO
BE SPENDING HOW MUCH?

Mike says RELATIVE TO WHERE WE
ARE ABOUT, ABOUT 49.
A 6 BILLION REDUCTION.

Steve says IN ONE YEAR.

Mike says NO, IN THREE YEARS.
THE REDUCTIONS ARE
IN THREE YEARS,
AND THE TAX REDUCTIONS ARE
IN THREE YEARS, AS WELL.

Steve says TAX REDUCTIONS BRINGS
UP MY NEXT POINT.
THERE ISN'T A POLITICIAN
ON THIS CONTINENT,
MAYBE IN THE WORLD, WHO
HASN'T, AT SOME POINT,
PROMISED TO CUT OUR
TAXES, AND WE KNOW WHERE
OUR TAXES ARE
RIGHT NOW.
WHY SHOULD ANYBODY BELIEVE
THAT YOU'RE REALLY GOING TO
CUT TAXES WHEN EVERYONE SAYS
THEY WILL, NOBODY EVER DOES.

Mike says WELL, THAT'S THE
NUMBER ONE QUESTION.
THERE ARE TWO THINGS, I THINK,
YOU SHOULD CHALLENGE ANYBODY
THAT PROMISES TAX CUTS.
NUMBER ONE, WHAT ARE THE
SPENDING CUTS TO GO WITH THEM?
YOU DETAIL, IN THE COMMON
SENSE REVOLUTION WE LAY IT OUT.
HERE IS WHERE WE WILL SPEND.
ATTACK US FOR WHERE WE'LL
SPEND, WHAT WE SAY.
DON'T MAKE UP STUFF.
I MEAN, ROMANOW CAME
TO TOWN AND SAID
I WAS GOING TO CUT
HEALTHCARE.
NOT TRUE.
HE HADN'T READ
THE DOCUMENT.
BUT WE DO SAY
WHERE WE WILL CUT.
SO IF THEY DON'T TELL YOU
EXACTLY HOW THEY'RE GOING TO
REDUCE SPENDING, THEN I
WOULDN'T BELIEVE THEM
IF THEY SAY THEY'RE
GOING TO CUT TAXES.
AND SECONDLY, CONSISTENCY.
FOUR YEARS AGO, WHEN I
SOUGHT THE LEADERSHIP,
AND IN THE LAST ELECTION, MY
BUTTON WAS LESS GOVERNMENT,
LESS TAXES, MORE JOBS.
I BELIEVE A KEY PART OF THE
PROSPERITY AGENDA IS
TO HAVE DOLLARS IN THE HANDS OF
ONTARIANS, NOT THE GOVERNMENT.
SO FAMILIES, HOW THEY
SPEND THESE TAX CUTS.
IT DOESN'T TAKE MONEY
OUT OF CIRCULATION.
IT SAYS GOVERNMENT HAS CERTAIN
AMOUNT OF THESE DOLLARS NOW.
THE TAX CUT IS 4 BILLION,
BY THE WAY, WHICH IS ABOUT
2,000 dollars A YEAR FOR THE
AVERAGE FAMILY.
I BELIEVE GOVERNMENT IS WASTING
A LOT OF THAT 4 BILLION.
SO INSTEAD OF GOVERNMENT
WASTING THAT 4 BILLION,
THIS WILL BE MONEY - IT'S
EQUIVALENT TO A 13 PERCENT
PAY RAISE, FOR EXAMPLE,
FOR THE AVERAGE ONTARIAN.

Steve says AND WE'RE NOT
GOING TO GO FURTHER
INTO DEBT TO PAY
FOR THAT?

Mike says NO, NOT IF YOU REDUCE
THE SPENDING.
ONTARIANS, I BELIEVE, WILL
HOW THEY SPEND IT, SAVE IT,
BUYING FURNITURE, STOVES,
CARS, AUTOMOBILES, HOUSES,
UPGRADES, OR WHAT
THEY INVEST IT IN.
WHAT THEY DO WITH
THE MONEY, I BELIEVE,
WILL CREATE FAR MORE
JOBS THAN GOVERNMENT
WASTING THE MONEY.

Steve says Mr. HARRIS. I'M GOING
TO STOP YOU THERE.
WE'RE GOING TO
TAKE A SHORT BREAK,
GET OUR WATER GLASS
REFILLED HERE.
IN A MINUTE, WE'RE GOING TO
COME BACK AND TAKE YOUR CALLS.
A REMINDER FOR THE
NUMBER FOR YOU TO CALL
TO TALK TO MIKE HARRIS
TONIGHT IS...

A caption reads “1-800-478-8346.”

Steve continues AND WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK ON
THE LINE AFTER THIS BREAK.

Theme music plays and the image fades.
Then, Steve and Mike reappear.

Steve says WELCOME BACK TO
STUDIO 2.
MIKE HARRIS, THE LEADER
OF THE ONTARIO PROGRESSIVE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY IS WITH
US FOR THE ENTIRE HOUR
TONIGHT TAKING YOUR PHONE
CALLS AT 1-800-4 STUDIO.
THAT'S 1-800-478-8346.
WITHOUT FURTHER ADO,
LET'S GET TO JOHN
WHO IS ON THE LINE
TONIGHT FROM SARNIA.
JOHN, YOU'RE ON
WITH MIKE HARRIS.
GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

A caption reads “John. Sarnia.”

John says YEAH, MIKE, CAN YOU
GIVE ME YOUR VIEWS
ON THE EMPLOYMENT EQUITY
IN ONTARIO RIGHT NOW.
AND SECONDLY, I'D LIKE
TO ASK YOU THE QUESTION,
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE
TESTING THAT GOES THROUGH -

Steve says GO AHEAD, JOHN.

John says SOME OF THE FIRE -
I'M SORRY.

Steve says OKAY, LET ME GET
THE QUESTION ABOUT
EMPLOYMENT EQUITY
OUT THERE.
THERE'S A NEW
EMPLOYMENT EQUITY LAW.
BRIEFLY, TELL ME WHAT
YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

Mike says WELL, WE OPPOSE
THE LAW.
WE'RE IN FAVOUR OF
EMPLOYMENT EQUITY,
AND EMPLOYMENT
EQUITY LEGISLATION.
WE THINK THERE IS A ROLE
FOR GOVERNMENT IN INSISTING
THAT THERE BE NO
DISCRIMINATION IN HIRING.
HOWEVER, WHERE WE THINK THIS
LEGISLATION WENT TOO FAR
WAS IN, NOT ENOUGH
AT THE FRONT END.
NOT ENOUGH IN
EDUCATION, IN TRAINING,
AND IN MAKING SURE ALL
PEOPLE HAVE EQUAL SKILLS
FOR THESE JOBS, OF WHICH
GOVERNMENT HAS A LOT OF THINGS,
AND LOT OF CONTROL OVER.
AND LEGISLATED, INSTEAD,
QUOTAS, AND SAYING,
YOUR WORKFORCE MUST
REPRESENT THIS BREAKDOWN
OF THE TARGET GROUP.

Steve says IF YOU'RE GOING
TO HAVE A LAW,
HOW WOULD IT BE DIFFERENT
FROM THE WAY IT IS NOW?

Mike says WELL, IT WOULD INSIST
THAT A, THERE WOULD BE
NO DISCRIMINATION.
IT WOULD INSIST
THAT GOVERNMENT,
BOTH PUBLIC SECTOR AND
PRIVATE SECTOR EMPLOYMENTS -
AND GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE
SECTOR HAVE A ROLE
TO PLAY IN DEMONSTRATING
TO THE GOVERNMENT,
TO EMPLOYMENT
EQUITY COMMISSION,
OR TO THE HUMAN
RIGHTS COMMISSION,
WHO I THINK COULD
HANDLE IT, AS WELL,
THAT THEIR HIRING PRACTICES,
IN FACT, DO NOT DISCRIMINATE.
THAT THEIR INTERVIEW PROCESS
DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE.

Steve says SO YOU WOULDN'T SAY YOU
HAVE TO HIRE SO MANY VISIBLE
MINORITIES, SO
MANY FRANCOPHONES?

Mike says NO.
I THINK ONCE YOU SET A QUOTA...
I THINK THE CANADIAN
FEDERATION OF INDEPENDENT
BUSINESS SAID, YOU KNOW,
IF YOU SET A TARGET
FOR YOURSELF,
THEN THAT'S A TARGET.
IF GOVERNMENT OR SOMEBODY
ELSE IMPOSES SOMETHING
ON YOU, THAT
THEN IS A QUOTA.

Steve says BUT THIS BILL, THE
LAW THAT'S PASSED,
DOES HAVE COMPANIES
SETTING THEIR OWN TARGETS.
THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T
SET THE TARGETS.

Mike says THE GOVERNMENT THEN COMES IN
AND SAYS THOSE TARGETS
ARE ACCEPTABLE OR NOT
ACCEPTABLE, AND YOU FINE YOU
ACCORDINGLY, OR WE
ACCEPT IT ACCORDINGLY.
THAT SEEMS TO BE THE GREATEST
DIFFICULTY THAT EMPLOYERS,
PUBLIC AND PRIVATE SECTOR,
HAVE WITH THE LEGISLATION.
AND WE DO, TOO.

Steve says I'M GOING TO TRY AND PREVENT
MY OWN INTERRUPTIONS HERE
TONIGHT, SO WE CAN GET AS
MANY OF YOU ON AS POSSIBLE.
WE WANT YOUR COMMENTS AND
QUESTIONS FOR MIKE HARRIS.
BOB IN GUELPH, YOU'RE UP
NEXT WITH MIKE HARRIS.
GO AHEAD.

A caption reads “Bob. Guelph.”

Bob says YES, GOOD EVENING,
Mr. HARRIS.

Mike says HELLO, BOB.

Bob says I'D LIKE TO TALK
ABOUT SOMETHING
MOST POLITICIANS
RUN AND DUCK.
AND THAT IS ABOUT IMMIGRATION

Mike says RIGHT.

Bob says NOW, THE MAJORITY OF
CANADIANS BELIEVE IMMIGRATION
IS A FEDERAL MATTER, WHEREAS
WE BOTH KNOW QUEBEC
HAS TOTAL CONTROL OVER ITS
OWN IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.
THEY'RE ALLOWED TO SELECT
THEIR OWN IMMIGRANTS.
THEY'RE ALLOWED TO TAKE THEM
BY EDUCATION, BY JOB SKILLS,
THEY CAN REFUSE TO ACCEPT
REFUGEES UNLESS THEY MEET
THEIR SELECTION CRITERIA,
AND THEY'RE ALSO ABLE
TO INCREASE OR DECREASE THE
NUMBERS THEY TAKE INTO THE
PROVINCE, AT WILL, AS THEY'VE
DONE IN JULY OF THIS YEAR
WHEN THEY ANNOUNCED THE
REDUCTION OF 22,500.

Steve says BOB, IS THERE A
QUESTION COMING HERE?

Bob says YES.
WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO
KNOW IS BASICALLY,
I HAVE SPOKEN TO OVER
2,000 PEOPLE IN ONTARIO
IN THE PAST YEAR AND A HALF,
AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM
HAS SAID THEY THINK IT'S A
GREAT IDEA FOR ONTARIO
TO TAKE CONTROL OVER
ITS OWN IMMIGRATION,
AND THEY WOULD SUPPORT THE
PARTY THAT WOULD BRING THAT IN
AS PART OF THEIR
ELECTION PROMISE.
I WANT TO KNOW IF YOUR
PARTY WILL PUT THAT ON
AS PART OF YOUR ELECTION,
AND IF NOT, WHY NOT?

Mike says YES, WE WILL, BOB.

Steve says THANKS FOR THE CALL.

Steve says HEATHER IN TORONTO.
WAS THAT ONE STAGED?
THAT WAS QUICK, OKAY.
HEATHER, YOU'RE UP.
IT'S YOUR TURN.

The caption changes to "Heather. Toronto."

Heather says HI, I'D JUST WOULD LIKE
TO MAKE A QUICK POINT
BEFORE I ASK MY QUESTION.
ALBERTA HAS THE LOWEST TAX
EFFORT FOR CORPORATIONS,
AND THE LEAST AMOUNT OF
GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION,
AND YET IT'S A DYING
PROVINCE.
SO LOW CORPORATE TAXES AND
LOW GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION
HAVEN'T STIMULATED THAT
PROVINCE'S ECONOMY
IN THE SLIGHTEST.
SO YOU'RE VERY
MISLEADING ON THAT POINT.
BUT MY QUESTION IS THIS,
IT'S A TWO-PART QUESTION.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE
AVERAGE RENT IS FOR
A TWO-BEDROOM APARTMENT
IN THE CITY OF TORONTO?

Mike says I'M NOT SURE.
I HAVEN'T GONE OUT.
WANT ME TO TAKE A
WILD GUESS... 790?
YOU TELL ME.

Heather says OKAY, IT'S BETWEEN 800
AND 900 DOLLARS A MONTH.

Mike says THAT'S PRETTY CLOSE, RIGHT?

Heather says AND YOU'RE PROPOSING TO CUT
WELFARE PAYMENTS TO, SAY,
A SINGLE MOTHER, TO, I BELIEVE
THE FIGURE WAS 535 A MONTH.
NOW, IF YOU CANNOT EVEN
RENT AN APARTMENT
IN THE CITY OF TORONTO FOR THAT
MUCH MONEY, HOW DO YOU EXPECT
THREE PEOPLE TO LIVE,
FEED, CLOTHE, AND HOUSE
THREE PEOPLE FOR
THAT MUCH MONEY?

Mike says THROUGH A GUARANTEED SHELTER
SUBSIDY PROGRAM THAT WILL
TAKE THE RENT COMPONENT
OUT OF THE CALCULATION.

Heather says YEAH, WHICH THEY'VE
TRIED IN THE STATES,
AND IT SIMPLY DOES
NOT WORK.

Mike says GEE, I THINK IT
WILL WORK HERE.
PEOPLE HAVE TOLD US.

Steve says WE SPEND BILLIONS ON
CHILD ALLOWANCE ALREADY.

Mike says YEAH, AND WE PROPOSE TO, AS
PART OF THE WHOLE REFORM
OF THE HOUSING SITUATION, GET
GOVERNMENT OUT OF OWNING AND
OPERATING ALL THIS HOUSING, TO
INSTITUTE SHELTER SUBSIDIES.
HEATHER, IF I COULD COMMENT.
I WAS OUT IN ALBERTA.
ALBERTANS DON'T THINK
THEY'RE A DYING PROVINCE.
I DON'T KNOW
WHY YOU DO.
I JUST WANTED TO
MAKE THAT COMMENT.

Heather says I'M FROM ALBERTA, AND MY
FAMILY STILL LIVES IN ALBERTA.

Mike says YEAH, I GOT A LOT OF FRIENDS
TOO, HEADING OUT THERE,
AND THAT DISAPPOINTS ME.
YOU CAN SAY IT'S
A DYING PROVINCE.
I DON'T THINK ALBERTANS
THINK IT'S A DYING PROVINCE.

Heather says WELL, I CAN GIVE
YOU A LONG LIST OF PROBLEMS.

Mike says CAN I JUST MAKE ONE OTHER
COMMENT ON YOUR WELFARE CLAIM.
WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING FOR ALL
ABLE-BODIED PEOPLE IS THAT
NOBODY HAS TO HAVE A CENT LESS
THAN THEY'RE GETTING TODAY.
BUT THE PORTION OF IT
THEY WILL GET FROM
THE TAXPAYERS WILL REDUCE-

Heather says AND WHERE WILL THEY
GET THE REST OF IT?

Mike says TO 10 PERCENT ABOVE THE
AVERAGE OF THE OTHER
PROVINCES, AND THEN
WE HAVE ACTUALLY,
AS PART OF OUR 500 MILLION dollars
OF NEW SPENDING PROGRAMS
ON THE WELFARE SIDE, WE HAVE
SAID THE ONUS IS NOW
ON GOVERNMENT, THE
PRIVATE SECTOR,
PUBLIC AND PRIVATE SECTOR
COMPANIES TO PROVIDE A JOB
OPPORTUNITY TO ALLOW EVERYBODY
TO EARN THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN WHAT THE
GOVERNMENT WILL NOW FUND,
AND WHAT THEY
WERE RECEIVING.
AND THAT'S ALL IN
THE PLAN.
AND I'D LOVE TO
SEND YOU A COPY,
IF YOU WANT TO
GIVE ME A CALL.

Heather says I'VE READ IT.

Mike says WELL, THAT'S IN THE PLAN.

Heather says YES, I KNOW.

Mike says YOU DON'T LIKE THAT
PART OF THE PLAN?

Heather says I THINK IT'S ABSURD.
I THINK YOU'RE
DAYDREAMING.
I THINK IT'S THE MOST
UNREALISTIC DOCUMENT
I'VE EVER READ
IN MY LIFE.

Mike says WELL, LISTEN, BOB
RAE SAYS THAT, TOO,
BUT MOST ONTARIANS THAT
READ IT, LOOK AT IT, SAY,
YES, THIS IS EXACTLY
WHAT WE NEED.

Steve says DO YOU RUN INTO
THAT REACTION,
IT HASN'T BEEN DONE,
THEREFORE IT CAN'T BE DONE?

Mike says WE RUN INTO THAT REACTION.
WHAT WE RUN INTO MOST,
THOUGH, IS, WELL,
I HEARD THAT THE
DOCUMENT DOES THIS.
I HEAR YOU'RE
GOING TO DO THIS.
WE ASK PEOPLE TO READ
IT FOR THEMSELVES
AND DON'T ACCEPT WHAT
OTHERS ARE SAYING.
THERE ARE A LOT OF
PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE
A VESTED INTEREST IN - YOU
DON'T EXPECT BOB RAE TO SAY,
HARRIS HAS GOT THE
SOLUTION, VOTE FOR HIM.
YOU DON'T EXPECT LYN
McLEOD TO SAY THAT.

Steve says CATHY, WHERE YOU
CALLING FROM TONIGHT?

Cathy says NORTH YORK.

Steve says NORTH YORK.
OKAY, YOU'RE UP
WITH MIKE HARRIS.
GO AHEAD.

The caption changes to "Cathy. North York."

Cathy says I JUST WONDERED, MIKE, HOW
YOU AND YOUR PARTY STAND
ON FUNDING FOR
OTHER SCHOOL BOARDS,
OTHER THAN THE
CATHOLIC SCHOOL BOARD?

Mike says ACTUALLY, WE'VE NOT SUPPORTED
EXTENSION OF FUNDING
TO ALTERNATE SCHOOLS, OR
OTHER SCHOOLS, HOWEVER,
LET ME TELL WHAT
YOU WE HAVE DONE.
WE'VE SUPPORTED
AFFILIATIONS THROUGH
THE EXISTING SCHOOL BOARD.
WE DON'T WANT TO GET INTO
ANOTHER SCHOOL BOARD,
OR ANOTHER SYSTEM TO, ANOTHER
LAYER OF BUREAUCRACY.
SO WHAT WE HAVE
BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF,
EVEN THOUGH YOU KNOW THE
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT
IS THERE FOR CATHOLIC
SCHOOLS, PUBLIC SCHOOLS,
FRENCH SCHOOLS,
AND THESE SYSTEMS,
WE'VE SUPPORTED
AFFILIATIONS.

Steve says WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

Mike says IT MEANS OTHER ALTERNATE
SCHOOLS OR PRIVATE SCHOOLS
CAN AFFILIATE WITH SCHOOL BOARDS
AND DERIVE THEIR FUNDING
THAT WAY, ON A FORMULA
THAT IS CONSISTENT
WITH THE CURRENT
STANDARDS OF EDUCATION.
THIS IS HAPPENING IN
A COUPLE OF SCHOOLS.
ONE IN THE LINCOLN
BOARD OF EDUCATION NOW.

Steve says I REMEMBER WHEN BERNIE
SHAPIRO DID THE BIG STUDY
ON THIS ABOUT TEN
YEARS AGO.
HE SAID THE COST OF
EXTENDING FULL FUNDING
FOR TUITION TO SAY, SEVENTH
DAY ADVENTIST SCHOOLS,
OR CHRISTIAN
FUNDAMENTALIST SCHOOLS,
OR JEWISH SCHOOLS
WOULD BE ABOUT
2 PERCENT OF THE
EDUCATION BUDGET.
IT WASN'T A QUESTION OF MONEY,
IT WAS A QUESTION OF WILL.

Mike says THERE IS ALWAYS WHAT'S CALLED
THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
IF ALL THOSE WHO WERE CURRENTLY
IN THE PRIVATE SCHOOLS
AT THAT TIME
GOT FULL FUNDING,
THAT'S WHAT IT
WOULD COST.
ONCE YOU GIVE FULL
FUNDING, ALL OF A SUDDEN
THERE MAY BE 50 MORE SCHOOLS
THAT DEVELOP, AND WHATNOT.
SO I GUESS WE'RE
TRYING TO ACCOMMODATE
WHAT WE THINK IS FAIR
WITHOUT GETTING MORE MONEY
GOING TO MORE
BUREAUCRACY.
THAT'S OUR BIGGEST
CHALLENGE.
AND IF THERE ARE SUGGESTIONS
ON HOW WE CAN DO THAT,
WE'D LOVE TO HEAR THEM.

Steve says CATHY, THANKS
FOR THE CALL.
LET'S GO TO BILL
IN TORONTO.
YOUR TURN WITH
MIKE HARRIS, GO AHEAD.

The caption changes to "Bill. Toronto."

Bill says HI, MIKE.

Mike says HI, BILL. HOW ARE YOU?

Bill says I'M NOT BAD, THANKS.
I'VE BEEN WATCHING SOME
OF THE ANTICS YOU GUYS
HAVE BEEN UP TO LATELY.
I SEE YOU GOT A TAPE OF BOB
RAE AT YOUR CONVENTION
AND GAVE HIM A STUTTER THAT
HE REALLY DIDN'T HAVE,
AND HAD A GOOD
LAUGH ABOUT THAT.
THEN YOU WAVED A BUNCH OF
PENNANTS IN THE HOUSE,
AND HAD A GOOD
LAUGH ABOUT THAT.
THEN YOU ACCUSED THE PREMIER
OF SENDING AN EMAIL
ON HIS INTERNET THAT YOU KNEW
FULL WELL HE DIDN'T SEND.
AND I GUESS MY QUESTION
IS, DO YOU GUYS WANT TO RUN
A FRATERNITY, OR DO YOU
WANT RUN THE PROVINCE?

Steve says JUST TO CLARIFY, I'M NOT
SURE Mr. HARRIS EVER SAID
IN THE HOUSE THAT THE PREMIER'S
OFFICE SENT THAT INTERNET.

Bill says I WATCHED THE NEWS.
HE SURE DID.

Mike says WELL, YOU SHOULD
HAVE WATCHED-

Bill says I WATCHED GLOBAL AND CBC.

Mike says YOU SHOULD HAVE
WATCHED THE REPLAY,
IF YOU LIKE, OF
THE LEGISLATURE.
WHAT I CLEARLY SAID WAS, BOB,
I KNOW YOU DIDN'T SEND THIS,
WE HAVE A SECURITY
PROBLEM.

Bill says BUT THE EMAIL, ACCORDING
TO THE GLOBE AND MAIL
DIDN'T EVEN COME
FROM HIM.
AND IT WAS PRETTY
CLEAR RIGHT ON THERE.

Mike says I SAID THE EMAIL DID
NOT COME FROM HIM.
I KNEW IT DIDN'T
COME FROM HIM.
IF IT CAME FROM HIM, I'D
HAVE HIM UP ON CHARGES,
IT WAS SUCH A TERRIBLE
PIECE OF GARBAGE.
AND THERE ARE ABOUT
40 MORE PIECES.

Bill says YEAH, I GUESS THE STUTTER
DIDN'T COME FROM HIM EITHER,
BUT YOU GAVE HIM THAT.

Mike says NO, I DIDN'T.

Bill says WELL SOMEBODY DID AT
THE TORY CONVENTION.
I READ ABOUT THAT IN
THE GLOBE AND MAIL.

Mike says WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, YOU
SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE.

Bill says OH, THE GLOBE'S WRONG.

Mike says THE VIDEO THAT WAS THERE
WAS PART OF CONTRASTING
TWO CONVENTIONS, AND
WHAT WAS INTENDED
TO BE PORTRAYED BY THE
COMEDIAN WHO DID IT
WAS THE KIND OF RAP
BACK AND FORTH.
AND THAT'S HOW 99
PERCENT TOOK IT.
ONE PERCENT SAID,
NO, I THINK IT LOOKS
LIKE HE HAS A STUTTER.
THIS WAS AN
INTERNAL THING.
FOR THOSE WHO
TOOK IT THAT WAY,
I CERTAINLY
APOLOGIZE, SIR.

Bill says THEN THEY'RE WAVING
FLAGS ALL AROUND.

Mike says YEAH, WE WAVED PENNANTS
IN THE LEGISLATURE.
THAT WAS A FUN DAY
BECAUSE WHAT WE WERE
MAKING THE POINT
THAT HERE WAS-

Bill says IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU GUYS
WANT TO RUN A FRATERNITY.

Mike says OKAY, HERE WAS BILL 40,
LABOUR LEGISLATION THAT WAS
GOING TO PROTECT MILLION
DOLLAR BALLPLAYERS,
AND ALL THESE POOR FOLKS
WHO HAD RELATED JOBS
WERE OUT OF WORK.
WE DON'T TAKE OURSELVES
TOO SERIOUSLY.
WE MAKE SOME MISTAKES,
WE ADMIT THEM.
AND CERTAINLY, WE DID
HAVE A LITTLE FUN
THAT DAY IN THE HOUSE.

Steve says LET'S GO NORTH TO SUDBURY.
EUGENE, YOUR TURN
WITH MIKE HARRIS.
GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

Gene says GOOD EVENING,
MIKE, HOW ARE YOU?

Mike says I'M JUST FINE.
GENE IS IT?

Gene says YES, IT'S GENE.

Mike says HI, GENE.

The caption changes to "Eugene. Sudbury."

Gene says MY QUESTION IS AROUND
AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND
NON-PROFIT HOUSING.
IN THE PAST, YOU'D MENTIONED
YOU WOULD GO BACK TO
A RENT
SUPPLEMENT AND
SHELTER ALLOWANCE SYSTEM
TO PROVIDE
AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

Mike says PART OF THE SOLUTION, YEAH.

Gene says OKAY.
WELL, GIVEN THE FACT WE KNOW
SHELTER ALLOWANCES AND RENT
SUPPLEMENTS DON'T ACTUALLY
BUILD NON-PROFIT HOUSING,
WHAT THEY DO IS ESSENTIALLY
SUBSIDIZE AN INDIVIDUAL,
DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT'S
A COST EFFECTIVE WAY
OF ENSURING THERE IS
AFFORDABLE HOUSING
IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR
IN THE LONG TERM?
I WANT YOU TO
EXPLAIN TO ME HOW
THAT IS A SAVINGS
TO THE TAXPAYER.

Mike says WELL, WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT
NOW IS THE PRIVATE SECTOR
IS NOT BUILDING
AFFORDABLE HOUSING, GENE.
THEY SAY, LOOK, WE CAN'T
MAKE A BUCK AT THIS.
WE'RE OUT OF IT.
SO THE GOVERNMENT,
BASICALLY, IS BUILDING IT,
OR SUBSIDIZING IT 100 PERCENT
THROUGH VARIOUS GROUPS.
WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT IT
IS COSTING SOMETIMES
TWICE AS MUCH BECAUSE IT'S
100 PERCENT GOVERNMENT PAID.
EVERYTHING IS
BUILT COST PLUS.
EVERYBODY ALL THE WAY ALONG
FROM ARCHITECT TO BUILDER
TO NON-PROFIT GROUP, IF
THAT'S WHO IT IS -
THE HIGHER THE COST, THE MORE
EVERYBODY MAKES ALONG THE WAY.
THE COSTS ARE
SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER.
SO WE THINK THERE ARE
SUBSTANTIAL SAVINGS
IF WE CAN HAVE COMPETITION
FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR
IN THE BUILDING SIDE, AND THE
OPERATION AND THE RUNNING
WILL SET STANDARDS, AND WE'LL
GUARANTEE TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR
AFFORDABILITY BY MAKING SURE
SHELTER SUBSIDIES ARE THERE.
I THINK THEY'LL BUILD
LIKE MAD IF THEY KNOW
EVERYBODY CAN
AFFORD THEIR UNITS.

Steve says LET'S STAY UP NORTH, A LITTLE
FURTHER NORTH, ACTUALLY.
THUNDER BAY, JOHN, YOUR
TURN WITH MIKE HARRIS.
GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

John says HI, MIKE.
HOW ARE YOU DOING TODAY?

Mike says HI, JOHN.
FINE.

The caption changes to "John. Thunder Bay."

John says GOOD.
I'VE GOT SORT OF A
TWO-PART QUESTION,
AND IT CONCERNS THE
WORKERS' COMPENSATION BOARD.
FIRST OF ALL, BILL 165
RECENTLY HAS BEEN
PROCLAIMED INTO
LEGISLATION.
WILL TAKE EFFECT
JANUARY 1ST.
I'M WONDERING, FIRST,
WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE
ON THAT PIECE OF LEGISLATION
WILL WORK TO REDUCE
THE UNFUNDED LIABILITY?
THE SECOND PART OF MY
QUESTION IS WHAT YOUR PLANS,
OR YOUR PARTY'S PLANS, ARE FOR
WORKERS' COMPENSATION BOARD?

Mike says WELL, I THINK THE BILL
WILL ACTUALLY REDUCE
THE UNFUNDED LIABILITY A
LITTLE BIT, MOSTLY BY,
AS I UNDERSTAND IT, DE-INDEXING
SOME OF THE PENSIONS,
OR PARTIALLY DE-INDEXING
SOME OF THE PENSIONS.
BUT WE THINK WCB
IS MAJOR OVERHAUL.
UNFUNDED LIABILITY IS 12
BILLION, GOING TO 13 QUICKLY.
NOBODY SEEMS HAPPY WITH IT
FROM WORKER TO UNION MEMBER,
CERTAINLY, THE
EMPLOYERS ARE NOT.
WE PUT OUT A PROPOSAL, I DON'T
WANT TO GO INTO TOO MANY -
IT WAS SIX POINTS
THAT WE SAID:
LET'S GET GOVERNMENT
OUT OF IT,
STOP THE POLITICAL
APPOINTMENTS,
BRING IN PROFESSIONAL
MANAGEMENT -
INSURANCE MANAGEMENT,
THAT'S WHAT WCB SHOULD BE,
ANALYZE, AND MAKE SURE OUR
PREMIUMS ARE AFFORDABLE,
AS INSURANCE
COMPANIES HAVE TO DO.
WE HAVE THE HIGHEST
RATES NOW THE CANADA,
AND VIRTUALLY, IN
NORTH AMERICA.
AND MAKE SURE THAT WITHIN
THAT WE'RE RUNNING IT
LIKE A BUSINESS, AND WE
HAVE AFFORDABLE PAYOUTS.
I MEAN, THERE'S SOME
SILLINESS IN THERE.
SOME PEOPLE ARE MAKING
EQUIVALENT OF 115 PERCENT
OF THE BEST THEY EVER
EARNED ON WCB.
OBVIOUSLY, THAT'S NONSENSE.
OTHERS ARE HURTING.
LET ME GIVE YOU
ONE FINAL POINT.
I'D BE HAPPY TO SEND
YOU THE PLAN ON IT.
SINCE WE ANNOUNCED THAT,
NEW BRUNSWICK HAS COME IN
WITH A PLAN TO REDUCE THEIR
UNFUNDED LIABILITY TO ZERO
IN TWO YEARS, AND REDUCE
PREMIUMS 18 PERCENT.
SO IT CAN BE DONE.

Steve says REBECCA IN TORONTO.
MIKE HARRIS IS WAITING
TO TAKE YOUR CALL.
GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

Rebecca says HELLO, Mr. HARRIS.

Mike says HI, REBECCA.

The caption changes to "Rebecca. Toronto."

Rebecca says YOU'VE BEEN VOCAL TONIGHT,
AND IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS IN
RECENT WEEKS OVER YOUR PARTY'S
POSITION TO REPEAL BILL 40.

Mike says YES.

Rebecca says MOST PEOPLE KNOW THIS
BILL AS A STATUTORY BAN
ON REPLACEMENT WORKERS
DURING A STRIKE PERIOD.
MY FIRST QUESTION IS HOW DO
YOU EXPLAIN THE SUCCESS
OF SIMILAR LEGISLATION IN
QUEBEC FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS?
AND SECONDLY, WHY DON'T YOU
EVER COMMENT ABOUT, I GUESS,
THE SUCCESS OF ANTI-SCAB
LEGISLATION IN A NUMBER
OF CASES THAT HAVE BEEN
ISSUED FROM THE ONTARIO
LABOUR RELATIONS BOARD?

Mike says I DON'T THINK IT'S BEEN
THAT SUCCESSFUL IN QUEBEC.
I KNOW WHEN THE
BILL WAS BROUGHT IN,
THERE WERE FOUR OR FIVE
COMPANIES THAT ALL MOVED TO
CORNWALL, AND
THEY'LL TELL YOU WHY,
THEY ALL LEFT QUEBEC BECAUSE
OF THE LABOUR LEGISLATION.
SO I DON'T THINK IT'S
BEEN A HUGE SUCCESS.
BILL 40, THOUGH, DOES A
WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS.
BILL 40, IN MY VIEW, REFUSES
TO EXTEND DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS
OF SECRET BALLOT TO WORKERS,
GIVES MORE ADVANTAGES
TO UNION LEADERS.
IT CERTAINLY, I BELIEVE,
TIPS THE BALANCE
IN FAVOUR OF UNIONIZATION
AND OF CERTAIN UNIONS.
AND REALLY, WHAT
I THINK, REBECCA,
IT WAS LEGISLATION THAT
CORRECTS EITHER A REAL OR
PERCEIVED IMBALANCE IN POWER
OF MANAGEMENT AND WORKERS
THAT MIGHT HAVE MADE SENSE
30 OR 40 YEARS AGO,
BUT TODAY, AND IN THE
JOBS OF THE FUTURE,
AND HOW WE NOW HAVE TO
BE WORLD COMPETITIVE,
I THINK WE NEED LABOUR
LEGISLATION THAT
WILL BRING MANAGEMENT
AND WORKERS TOGETHER.
AND THAT IS GOING TO MEAN
SOME CHANGES ON BOTH SIDES.

Steve says SEE IF WE CAN SNEAK ONE
MORE CALL IN HERE BEFORE
WE TAKE A BREAK MIDWAY
THROUGH THE PROGRAM.
ANTON IN TORONTO.
IT'S YOUR TURN
WITH MIKE HARRIS.

The caption changes to "Anton. Toronto."

Anton says YES, GOOD EVENING.
I'M CALLING
FROM TORONTO.
AND I'M A UNIVERSITY
OF TORONTO STUDENT
STUDYING SCIENCE PROGRAM.
AND I AM REALLY FED UP WITH
THE SYSTEM WE DON'T GET ANY
GRANTS ANYMORE, AND WE'RE
NOT ELIGIBLE FOR APPLYING
FOR WELFARE, AND WE'RE ONLY
QUALIFIED TO GET OSAP,
BUT WE HAVE TO PAY IT
BACK WHEN WE GRADUATE.
AND ANOTHER THING I AM
REALLY DISAPPOINTED BY YOU,
IS YOU GOT THAT
ADVERTISEMENT FROM AMERICAN,
ADVERTISEMENT FOR THE
COMMON SENSE APPROACH,
AND ALSO YOUR CONTROVERSIAL
MTHA WORKERS QUITTING
AND CLAIMING WELFARE.
HOW COME YOU NOW SAY THERE
IS NO WELFARE FOR PEOPLE
WHO ARE UNEMPLOYED,
AND THERE ARE A LOT OF
RACISM GOING ON RIGHT NOW.
AND HOW COME WITH THAT KIND
OF COMMENTS YOU MADE BEFORE,
NOW YOU'RE SAYING NO
WELFARE, AND NO GRANTS,
AND NO NOTHING FOR THE PEOPLE
WHO ARE STARVING TO DEATH
RIGHT NOW IN THIS
PROVINCE.
I AM AN IMMIGRANT.
I'M REALLY FED UP.
I'M VERY FED UP.
WE GOT RID OF CONSERVATIVE
FEDERALLY WISE,
AND WE KNOW HOW TO GET RID OF
THIS PROVINCIAL CONSERVATIVE
AND MAKE IT TO ZERO IN
THE HOUSE OF PARLIAMENT,
IN QUEEN'S PARK.

Steve says LET'S GET AN ANSWER FROM
Mr. HARRIS ON THESE ISSUES.

Mike says ANTON, YOU RAISED
A NUMBER OF ISSUES.
THE INDIVIDUAL WHO QUIT MTHA
AND WENT ON WELFARE ASKED
TO BE ABLE TO TELL HER STORY,
AND I MADE IT VERY CLEAR
THAT IF MIKE HARRIS WAS
PREMIER, SHE COULDN'T DO THAT.
IF SHE QUIT,
SHE'D GET NOTHING.
SO THAT WAS THE
EXAMPLE WE WANTED TO USE.
SHE, BY THE WAY, THOUGHT
IT WAS RIDICULOUS, TOO.
IT'S INTERESTING.
I DON'T KNOW WHY
YOU'RE BLAMING ME
BECAUSE YOU DON'T
GET ANY GRANTS.
YOU KNOW, WHEN THE
TORIES WERE IN,
YOU GOT GRANTS
TO GO TO SCHOOL.
I DON'T KNOW WHY -
WE HAVEN'T BEEN
IN GOVERNMENT
FOR TEN YEARS.
I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU'RE
BLAMING ME FOR SOME
OF THESE CHANGES, YOU HAVE
TO PAY THE MONEY BACK.
PERHAPS IT'S BECAUSE I
AGREE WITH THE LIBERALS
AND THE NDP WHO ARE
MAKING THESE CHANGES.
I THINK YOU SHOULD.
I WANT TO CUT GRANTS TO
BUSINESSES, TOO, YOU KNOW?
I THINK THERE IS A
BENEFIT TO SOCIETY,
SO WE'LL PAY THE LION'S SHARE
OF THE EDUCATIONAL COST,
BUT ANTON, THERE IS A
BENEFIT TO YOU, TOO.
AND I THINK IF YOU
CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY IT,
I THINK WE WILL
LOAN YOU THE MONEY.
WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT'S
NOT A BARRIER TO YOU
GETTING HIGHER EDUCATION,
OR ANY ONTARIAN.
BUT I THINK THERE'S
A BENEFIT, AND WE DO
WANT YOU TO PAY IT BACK.
SO IF YOU MAD AT ME FOR
AGREEING WITH BOB RAE
OR LLOYD AXWORTHY,
I'M GUILTY.

Steve says THAT'S THE NUMBER FOR
YOU TO CALL TO GET IN
ON OUR DISCUSSION HERE
ON STUDIO 2.

The caption changes to "1-800-478-8346."

Steve continues AND WE SHOULD TELL YOU,
JUST PARENTHETICALLY HERE,
THE CALLS COME IN, AND
WE PUT THEM ON THE AIR
IN THE ORDER IN WHICH
THEY'RE COMING IN.
THE OTHER NIGHT THAT
PREMIER RAE WAS ON RECEIVED
A LOT OF
FAVOURABLE CALLS.
IT WAS SUGGESTED TO
US THE DAY AFTER.
THAT'S JUST THE
WAY THEY CAME IN.
AND WE'RE PUTTING THEM
ON THE SAME WAY TONIGHT.
YOU CALL IN, YOU GET IN
ORDER, WE PUT YOU ON THE AIR.
AND TO THAT END, JOHN IN
WOODSTOCK IS OUR NEXT CALLER,
FOR YOU, Mr. HARRIS,
RIGHT HERE ON
STUDIO 2.
GO AHEAD, JOHN.

John says GOOD EVENING,
Mr. HARRIS.

Mike says HI, JOHN.

John says I WELCOME YOU AS
OUR NEXT PREMIER
TO THE PROVINCE
OF ONTARIO.

Steve says WHOA, JOHN, WHAT
DO YOU KNOW THAT
THE REST OF US
DON'T KNOW YET?

John says HOPEFULLY, LOTS.

Mike says YEAH, HOPEFULLY LOTS.

Steve says THERE'S A LITTLE FORMALITY
CALLED AN ELECTION
THAT'S GOT TO
HAPPEN STILL.
BUT ANYWAY, GO AHEAD.

John says I'M PRESENTLY AN
INSURANCE BROKER
IN THE PROVINCE
OF ONTARIO.
I'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN
INVOLVED WITH MANY CHANGES
TO AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE
IN OUR PROVINCE.
THE CHANGES THEY MADE
IN JANUARY OF THIS YEAR
CONCERNED ME VERY MUCH AS WELL
AS THEIR POTENTIAL PLATFORM
ISSUES THEY MAY INTRODUCE
DURING THE UPCOMING ELECTION.
I'D JUST LIKE TO CONFIRM WHERE
THE PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT
OF ONTARIO SITS UNDER THE
COULD YOU FILL ME IN ON WHERE
YOU SIT AS TO WHETHER THE
GOVERNMENT WILL ACTUALLY
BE INVOLVED, OR-?

Steve says OKAY, JOHN, LET'S GET
AN ANSWER HERE FROM HIM.

Mike says THE CHANGES YOU TALK ABOUT,
YOU'RE RIGHT TO FEAR THEM
BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO
DRIVE UP RATES ANYWHERE
FROM 10-25 PERCENT, DEPENDING
ON WHO YOU TALK TO.
AND MANY FEAR IT'S
A HIDDEN AGENDA ITEM.
THAT THE NDP WANT TO FORCE
COMPANIES TO HAVE TO RESPOND
TO THIS LEGISLATION, HIKE
RATES, AND ALLOW THEM TO SAY,
SEE, YOU CAN'T TRUST THE
INSURANCE COMPANIES AND COME
BACK WITH THEIR OLD FAVOURITE,
WHICH IS PUBLIC AUTO INSURANCE

Steve says I THOUGHT PREMIER RAE
ALREADY SAID FORGET IT,
THAT AIN'T NEVER
GOING TO HAPPEN.

Mike says I KNOW HE DID.
BUT HE SAID A LOT OF THINGS
AND CHANGED HIS MIND ON.
WE FEAR THIS BECAUSE
I THINK THE CHANGES,
STEVE, ARE NOT HEALTHY
ONES OR GOOD ONES.
WHAT WE ACTUALLY -
I HAVE TO TELL YOU,
THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF CHANGES
IN THE INSURANCE BUSINESS.
THE NO-FAULT THAT WAS
FINALLY ARRIVED AT
BY AGREEMENT WITH THE
INDUSTRY AND THE GOVERNMENT,
AND IT WAS A LIBERAL
GOVERNMENT AT THE TIME.
THERE WAS A LOT
OF CONTROVERSY.
THEY TRIED TO DO A
WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS.
BUT THE BASIC NO
FAULT PACKAGE,
I THINK WAS A
PRETTY GOOD PACKAGE.
CLEARLY, IT WAS SOMETHING
THAT WAS MORE AFFORDABLE.
AND BECAUSE AUTO
INSURANCE IS COMPULSORY,
AS IT SHOULD BE IN THE
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO WHEN YOU
ARE DRIVING, PARTICULARLY
THE LIABILITY SIDE,
I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK
AT AN AFFORDABLE PACKAGE,
VERY SIMILAR TO THAT.
WE WOULD LIKE TO SCRAP SOME
OF THE CHANGES BOB RAE JUST
BROUGHT IN, AND IF THERE ARE
OPTIONS THAT PEOPLE WANT,
IF THEY HAVE HIGHER INCOMES
THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT
LOSING THAN, SAY, THE AVERAGE
THAT WOULD BE AVAILABLE
UNDER NO-FAULT, OR
THEY'RE PRIVATE
INDEPENDENT BUSINESS
PEOPLE, THAT THEY CAN BUY
ADDITIONAL INSURANCE
TO COVER THAT.
BUT KEEP THE BASIC
PACKAGE AFFORDABLE.

Steve says LET'S GO TO HAMILTON.
GREG, IT'S YOUR TURN
WITH MIKE HARRIS.
GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

Greg says HELLO, Mr. HARRIS.
HOW ARE YOU THIS
EVENING?

Mike says HI, GREG.
JUST FINE.

The caption changes to "Greg. Hamilton."

Greg says HI.
I WORK IN THE
HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.
I'VE BEEN IN HEALTHCARE
FOR 21 YEARS.
I'M A FRONTLINE WORKER
DELIVERING CARE.
I WOULD LIKE TO
MAKE A STATEMENT.
I WISH LYN McLEOD AND
BOB RAE WERE SITTING
THERE WITH YOU TONIGHT.

Mike says THEY WILL BE BEFORE
THE ELECTION IS OVER.

Greg says YES, I GUARANTEE YOU
WILL ALL BE QUESTIONED.

Steve says WHAT WOULD YOU
TELL THEM, GREG?
WHAT IS THE POINT?

Greg says THE THING IS, OKAY I'D
LIKE TO MAKE A STATEMENT.
I WANT TO BE FAIR.
I HAVE BEEN A VERY STRONG
PC SUPPORTER IN THE PAST.
I'VE VOTED
DIFFERENTLY SINCE.
I'M VERY POLITICAL.
YOUR PARTY, Mr. HARRIS,
HAS RUN THE PROVINCE
FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS,
THE LIBERAL PARTY ALSO,
NOW WE HAVE THE
NDP PARTY.
ONE THING THAT I
HAVE BECOME AWARE OF,
I NEVER WAS AWARE OF, WAS A
LOT OF SERVICES OHIP COVERED,
THEY WERE CERTAINLY
NOT HEALTHCARE NEEDS.
SAY FOR ONE,
REMOVAL OF TATTOOS.
IN THE PAST, WE HAD A STRIKE
WHEN BILL DAVIS WAS IN.
THIS TIME AROUND,
WE'VE ALL BEEN ASKED
TO SHARE THE PAIN,
DOCTORS INCLUDED.
I'VE NEVER SEEN YOUR PARTY
ASK THE DOCTORS TO SHARE,
OR THE LIBERAL PARTY.
I DON'T HAVE A PENSION PLAN
BECAUSE BELIEVE
ME, IF I COULD,
I'M VERY TIRED TONIGHT,
I'M VERY FRUSTRATED.

Steve says IT'S OKAY.
WHAT'S THE MAIN QUESTION THAT
YOU WANT TO ASK Mr. HARRIS?

Greg says THE QUESTION IS, Mr. HARRIS,
I DON'T MIND HAVING
THINGS TAKEN OFF MY PAY,
IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING,
THE PROVINCE IS NOT ONLY
BROKE, THE COUNTRY IS BROKE,
WE'RE NOT GOING TO
HAVE ANY SERVICES,
BUT I'M TIRED OF THE
SIZE OF GOVERNMENT, TOO.
I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE GETTING A
FAT PENSION AFTER SIX YEARS,
ANY POLITICAL PARTY, NO
MATTER WHERE YOU SERVE.
I DON'T AGREE WITH IT, AND I
DON'T THINK I SHOULD HAVE SUCH
A PLAN AS THE WORKER, EITHER.
AND I CERTAINLY DON'T HAVE
A PLAN AS GENEROUS AS THAT.
I CERTAINLY DON'T HAVE IT.

Steve says GREG, I'M GOING TO THANK
YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR CALL.
LET'S GO ON TO
BERNARD FROM MIDLAND.
YOU'RE ON WITH MIKE HARRIS.
GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

The caption changes to "Bernard. Midland."

Bernard says YEAH.
MIKE, I'M ON A PENSION,
AND I'VE ALREADY HAD
60 dollars CUT OUT OF MY PENSION.
IT'S A DISABILITY PENSION.
I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE
ON IT WHEN I WAS 18.
AND I'VE HAD THREE HEART
ATTACKS IN THE PAST TWO YEARS,
AND I CAN'T GET
MEDICATION.

Mike says WHO IS THE PENSION FROM?

Bernard says IT'S FROM THE
ONTARIO GOVERNMENT.

Mike says OKAY.

Bernard says AND I WANT TO KNOW WHERE
YOUR STAND IS IN IT?
HOW ARE YOU GOING
TO CUT THIS?
BECAUSE THIS IS PART
OF THE WELFARE PROGRAM.

Mike says YEAH.
IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
WE'RE NOT GOING
TO CUT IT AT ALL.
IN FACT, WE'RE SPLITTING THE
WELFARE PROGRAM INTO TWO.
THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE
DISABLED, THOSE WHO,
THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR
OWN, EITHER DISABILITY,
AS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
WITH DISABILITY PENSION,
IN SOME CASES AGE, AND WE'RE
GOING TO REMOVE THEM RIGHT
OUT OF THE WELFARE SYSTEM AND
GUARANTEE THEIR BENEFITS
FULLY AT THE HIGHEST IN THE
LAND WHERE THEY'RE AT.
WHAT OUR CHANGES ARE GEARED
AT ARE ALL THOSE PEOPLE
WHO ARE ABLE-BODIED, WHO ARE
ABLE TO WORK BUT ARE NOT.
MAYBE BECAUSE
THERE ISN'T A JOB,
OR DON'T HAVE THE
SKILLS THAT ARE THERE.
SO THE CUTS WE'RE MAKING,
WE'RE MAKING REDUCTIONS,
MOSTLY IN ATTITUDE, AND
THINGS THEY CAN DO TO GET
THEIR MONEY, DON'T AFFECT
THOSE WITH DISABILITIES.

Bernard says THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Mike says THANK YOU.
BY THE WAY, GREG,
I THINK HE ASKED,
I THINK IN THE QUESTION
WAS THE PENSIONS.
AND I DON'T MIND COMMENTING
THAT I HAVE FOUGHT,
EVER SINCE I TOOK OVER THE
LEADERSHIP OF THE PARTY,
TO SCRAP OUR MPP
PENSION COMPLETELY.
TO SCRAP THE TAX
FREE ALLOWANCE.
AND TO DATE, I HAVEN'T GOT
A SECONDER FROM THE LIBERAL
PARTY OR THE NDP PARTY.
AND I THINK IT'S FAIR
FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT.

Steve says WEST TO MISSISSAUGA.
MICHAEL, YOUR TURN
WITH MIKE HARRIS.
GO AHEAD.

The caption changes to "Michael. Mississauga."

Michael says YES, MIKE, HOW ARE
YOU TODAY?

Mike says I'M JUST FINE.

Michael says ONE THING THAT HAS REALLY
TROUBLED ME OVER THE PAST
FEW YEARS HAS BEEN THE HUGE
INCREASES IN THE HIDDEN TAX
FROM BOB RAE, AND BEFORE
THAT, DAVID PETERSON,
FOR EXAMPLE THE PROBATE
FEES, OR THAT SORT OF THING.
WHEN YOU REFER TO A 30 PERCENT
REDUCTION IN INCOME TAX,
WOULD YOU ALSO BE REFERRING
TO REDUCING ALL THESE HIDDEN
TAXES THAT MOST PEOPLE
DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT.

Mike says I'D LOVE TO
CUT 'EM ALL.
AND IT'S A GREAT
QUESTION.
YOU'RE QUITE RIGHT.
I MEAN, I THINK
CASINOS ARE A NEW TAX,
I THINK PHOTO
RADAR IS A NEW TAX.

Steve says YOU'RE GOING TO
CUT CASINOS?

Mike says I DON'T THINK GOVERNMENT
HAS A REVENUE PROBLEM,
I THINK THEY'VE GOT
A SPENDING PROBLEM.
AND I THINK THE
MOTIVATION BEHIND
A LOT OF THESE
POLICIES ARE TAXES.
50 DOLLAR FILING
FEE FOR BUSINESS.
NO, OUR PLAN ISN'T, AT
THIS POINT, TO CUT THEM.
I'D LOVE TO TELL YOU
THAT WE COULD DO THAT.
I BELIEVE THIS, I BELIEVE
THAT OUR TAX CUT WILL BE
THE BIGGEST JOB CREATION
STIMULATING PROGRAM
IN THE HISTORY OF CANADA,
IN CONJUNCTION WITH OUR
OTHER POLICIES THAT WE CAN
GET ONTARIO BACK TO WORK.
GOVERNMENT WILL EVENTUALLY GET
MORE MONEY WHEN PEOPLE EARN
MORE MONEY AND MORE
PEOPLE ARE WORKING.
AND I HOPE THAT WE CAN FURTHER
DECREASE OTHER TAXES.
WE, IN OUR PLAN, DO
CUT THE PAYROLL TAX
FOR ALL SMALL BUSINESSES
AND INDIVIDUALS.
BUT AT THIS
POINT IN TIME,
WE'VE NOT MADE THAT
COMMITMENT YET.
MAYBE I CAN IN THE
SECOND ELECTION.

Steve says WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU WANT
TO GET ONTARIO BACK TO WORK?
92.5 PERCENT OF THE
PEOPLE IN THIS PROVINCE
OFFICIALLY ARE
WORKING ALREADY.

Mike says YEAH, YEAH.
THAT EXCLUDES A LOT OF PEOPLE,
STEVE, WHO ARE ON WELFARE.
THEY'RE NOT COUNTED
IN THOSE STATISTICS.
THAT EXCLUDES PEOPLE
WHO HAVE GIVEN UP.
THAT EXCLUDES PEOPLE
WHO HAVE LEFT.
AND I DON'T FIND IT
ACCEPTABLE THAT IF ONE PERSON
WANTS A JOB AND WE
DON'T HAVE ONE, I MEAN,
I'M NOT SAYING WE'LL REACH
ZERO PERCENT UNEMPLOYMENT,
BUT ISN'T THAT
THE TARGET?
THAT'S MY GOAL.
AND I BELIEVE I WANT TO GET
TO SEE THIS PROVINCE GROW.
THIS HAS BEEN A PROVINCE OF
SIGNIFICANT IMMIGRATION.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, IF WE
CAN GET WORKING AGAIN,
IT WILL BE A MOOT POINT
ABOUT WHAT LEVELS
OF IMMIGRATION WE
ARE GOING TO HAVE.
FOR MOST OF OUR 200
YEAR HISTORY, WE SAID,
WE NEED MORE PEOPLE.
WHO WILL COME
HERE AND WORK?
AND I WOULD LIKE TO GET
US BACK IN THAT MOOD.

Steve says ALAIN IN THE
NATION'S CAPITAL.
YOU'RE ON WITH
MIKE HARRIS.
GO AHEAD.

The caption changes to "Alain. Ottawa."

Alain says YES, GOOD EVENING,
Mr. HARRIS.
Mr. HARRIS, CANADA HAS
ELECTED TWO MAJORITY
CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENTS
WHO PROMISED TO DO MANY
OF THE COST CONTROL
AND COST REDUCTION
YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT FOR ONTARIO.
THESE TWO OPPORTUNITIES WERE
LARGELY WASTED THROUGH,
WHAT I BELIEVE IS LACK
OF POLITICAL COURAGE.
WHAT MAKES YOU
DIFFERENT?
WHY SHOULD WE BELIEVE
THAT YOU ARE GOING TO
CARRY THROUGH WITH
YOUR PLATFORM?

Mike says WELL, ALAIN, I
AGREE WITH YOU.
AND THERE HAVE
BEEN OTHER GOVERNMENTS
THAT HAVE BEEN ELECTED
THAT HAVEN'T HAD
THE POLITICAL COURAGE.
AND YOU ASKED THE NUMBER
ONE QUESTIONS THAT I FACE.
HOW CAN WE TRUST YOU?
HOW DO WE KNOW YOU'RE
GOING TO HAVE THE COURAGE?
ALAIN, THIS IS THE
QUESTION ULTIMATELY VOTERS
ARE GOING TO HAVE
TO DECIDE.
I MEAN, I CAN TELL YOU
I HAVE THE COURAGE.
I THINK I'VE
DEMONSTRATED IT.
I PUT THE PLAN OUT
THERE A YEAR AHEAD.
I'M PREPARED TO TELL YOU
EXACTLY NOW WHERE I'LL CUT,
AS OPPOSED TO, OH, YOU
KNOW, WE'LL DO OUR BEST
TO CONTROL IT,
OR TRUST US.
AND THAT'S WHY
WE DID IT.
I DON'T THINK THE
PUBLIC BUYS, “TRUST US,”
ANYMORE, OR “ELECT
US AND SEE.”
SO WE'VE LAID OUR PROPOSALS
OUT IN SIGNIFICANT DETAIL.
WE'RE PREPARED TO BE
CRITICIZED FOR THE CUTS.
AND IF YOU'VE BEEN
WATCHING THE SHOW,
SOME HAVE CRITICIZED
SOME OF THEM TONIGHT.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT, AS WELL,
I'VE BEEN VERY CONSISTENT AT ALL
LEVELS OF ALL GOVERNMENTS,
REGARDLESS OF PARTY,
FIGHTING FOR THE KINDS OF
CHANGES WE'RE PROPOSING,
LESS GOVERNMENT, LESS
TAXES, MORE JOBS.
AND ULTIMATELY, THOUGH,
UNTIL I AM THERE, I GUESS,
YOU HAVE TO GO
ON EXPERIENCE.
YOU HAVE TO GO
ON CONSISTENCY.
YOU HAVE TO GO
ON THE RECORD.
AND I ASK YOU TO
EXAMINE ALL THOSE,
AND THE FACT THAT
WE'RE WILLING
TO LAY IT OUT
IN SUCH DETAIL.

Steve says LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT
GUTS OF ANOTHER KIND.
WHAT IF YOU GET IN THERE, WHAT
IF YOU WIN THE NEXT ELECTION,
YOU BECOME PREMIER, YOU
GET INTO THE OFFICE,
YOU GET THE BRIEFING,
AND YOU FIND OUT
IT'S NOT QUITE WHAT YOU
THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE.
IT'S MORE COMPLICATED.
AND YOU HONESTLY CONCLUDE,
I'M GOING TO HAVE
TO BREAK SOME
OF MY PROMISES.
WILL YOU HAVE THE GUTS TO GO
BACK ON SOME OF THESE PROMISES,
THAT MAYBE WERE ILL
ADVISED IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Mike says WELL, LISTEN STEVE,
I'VE BEEN THERE.
I'VE BEEN IN
GOVERNMENT.
I'VE BEEN IN CABINET.
NOT FOR A LONG TIME.
BUT I DON'T THINK THERE ARE
TOO MANY HUGE SURPRISES
FOR ME THAT ARE THERE.
BUT YES, I MEAN, IF,
IN FACT CIRCUMSTANCES
SAY SOMETHING DIFFERENT
HAS TO BE DONE,
THEN WE PROVIDE
MECHANISMS FOR THAT:
REFERENDUM, GO BACK
TO THE PEOPLE,
ALLOW THEM TO
HAVE A SAY.
I THINK THAT'S FAIR.
AND THERE ARE TWO GOAL
POSTS WE LAID OUT
IN THE COMMON SENSE
REVOLUTION.
WE'RE GOING TO CUT SPENDING
6 BILLION dollars, FROM 55 TO 49,
IF WHEN WE GET THERE IT'S
57, IT WOULD BE TO 51.
WE'RE GOING TO MAKE
THOSE REDUCTIONS.
WE'RE GOING TO BRING IN THE
TAX CUTS EXACTLY AS WE SAY.
AND WE'RE 100
PERCENT CONVINCED
THAT THAT WILL
LEAD TO GROWTH.
NOW, THERE MAY
BE OTHER FACTORS.
IF THE FEDS CUT
BACK DRAMATICALLY,
THAT WILL AFFECT HOW FAST
WE CAN BALANCE THE BUDGET.
BUT WE WILL DEAL
WITH THOSE.

Steve says SPENDING CUTS AND TAX
CUTS ARE INVIOLABLE?
THAT'S HAPPENING REGARDLESS
OF WHAT YOU FIND OUT
IF AND WHEN YOU GET IN?

Mike says EXACTLY.
AND WE ARE TRYING TO
SAY TO THE PEOPLE, LOOK,
WE'LL GIVE YOU MECHANISMS
TO HOLD US ACCOUNTABLE.
I MEAN, I'M THE GUY, THREE
YEARS AGO NOW, MAYBE LONGER,
I INTRODUCED, YOU KNOW,
INTO THE LEGISLATURE,
THE MOTION TO SAY, LET'S
HAVE BALANCED BUDGETS.
AND IF YOU'RE NOT
GOING TO BALANCE IT,
YOU GO TO THE PEOPLE
AND ASK THEM TO RATIFY
WHY YOU CAN'T
BALANCE IT.
THAT'S FAIR.

Steve says ARTHUR IN NORTH YORK, IT'S
YOUR TURN WITH MIKE HARRIS.
LET'S HEAR FROM YOU.

Arthur says HI, Mr. HARRIS.

Mike says HELLO, ARTHUR.

The caption changes to "Arthur. North York."

Arthur says FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO SAY
I LIKE THE POLICY DIRECTION
YOUR PARTY IS TAKING.
SECOND OF ALL, I
HAVE TWO QUESTIONS,
FIRST IS ON THE
ADVOCACY LEGISLATION,
AND THE CREATION OF
THE NEW BUREAUCRACY.
I WANT TO KNOW HOW
YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?
SECOND OF ALL, WHAT DO YOU
THINK OF THE NDP'S STANCE
ON BANNING TOBACCO
SALES IN DRUGSTORES?

Mike says WELL, I THINK I WAS
READING IN THE PAPER TODAY
SOMEBODY SAID THEY THOUGHT
IT WAS CONSTITUTIONAL.
I THINK IT'S SILLY.
I HONESTLY THINK
IT'S SILLY.
I REMEMBER THE TORIES -
THIS IS, YOU KNOW -
I DON'T MIND TELLING
YOU WHEN WE WERE WRONG.
WE SAID, NO SUNDAY SHOPPING,
EXCEPT IF THE STORE
IS THIS SIZE, OR A CORNER STORE,
OR IF THIS, OR IF THAT.
AND WE GOT IN TO DEFINING
WHO COULD SELL WHAT
ON WHAT DAYS, AND
THE REST OF IT.
SO I'M SUPPORTIVE OF A LOT OF
THE ANTI-SMOKING MEASURES,
BUT I DON'T THINK IT MAKES
MUCH SENSE TO SAY THE CORNER
STORE CAN SELL THEM,
WHERE, YOU KNOW,
MOSTLY INEXPERIENCED
CLERKS ARE WORKING
IN A LOT OF MY CORNER STORES,
NICE PEOPLE, BUT A DRUGGIST,
YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T
TRUST THEM TO SELL THEM.

Steve says OKAY, WHAT ABOUT ADVOCACY?

Mike says ADVOCACY, UNLESS THERE ARE -
I AM PERSUADED THAT THIS
LEGISLATION IS GOING TO DO A
LOT MORE THAN I THINK
IT'S GOING TO DO, I THINK
WE'LL SCRAP THE WHOLE THING.

Steve says SCRAP THE WHOLE ADVOCACY?

Mike says YEAH, YEAH, THE
WHOLE BILL, THE ACT.
I THINK THE ADVOCACY PART
OF IT'S JUST GOING TO BE
A COMPLEX, CONVOLUTED,
EXPENSIVE INTERVENTION
THAT IS NOT GOING
TO HELP THE PEOPLE
IT WAS INTENDED TO HELP.
NOW, I SAY, UNLESS I'M
PERSUADED THERE
ARE SOME AMENDMENTS THAT
CAN BE MADE TO MAKE IT
MORE EFFICIENT AND MORE
EFFECTIVE, WE'LL HAVE
SOME EXPERIENCE, I
HOPE, TO LOOK AT,
BUT WE'RE NOT AT ALL
PERSUADED IT'S GOING TO WORK.
AND WE THINK IT'LL BE
EXPENSIVE AND CUMBERSOME.

Steve says BRUCE IN HAMILTON, WE
WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU NOW.
GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

Bruce says HELLO, MIKE.

Mike says HI, BRUCE.

The caption changes to "Bruce. Hamilton."

Bruce says YEAH, BRUCE FROM HAMILTON.
THIS IS ABOUT JUSTICE.
I HAD ONE QUESTION, BUT
I ACTUALLY HAVE TWO.

Mike says OKAY.

Bruce says THE FIRST ONE CONCERNS, LIKE
WITH THIS PAUL BERNARDO CASE,
WE SEEM TO BE GOING
ON AND ON AND ON,
AND I DEFINITELY GET THE
MESSAGE THE LAWYERS
ARE USING HIM BASICALLY
NO MORE AS A CASH COW.
IS THERE ANYTHING WE CAN
DO ABOUT THIS TO SPEED
THE PROCESS UP AND GET
SOMEWHERE WITH IT?

Mike says I SURE HOPE SO.
I MEAN, WE THINK THE
JUSTICE SYSTEM NEEDS
SUBSTANTIAL REFORM, AND
THE DELAYS ARE PART OF IT.
THE ABILITY OF SOMEBODY TO
CHANGE LAWYERS MIDSTREAM,
THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT IS
GOING OUT IN LEGAL AID
IN THIS CASE, THERE'S
A STORY, YOU KNOW,
THAT 20 YEARS FROM NOW, THE
HEADLINE OF THE DAY WILL BE,
WELL, I'M BIASED, HARRIS
BRINGS IN 10TH BALANCED BUDGET
IN A ROW, THAT'LL BE ONE OF
THE STORIES, THE SECOND ONE
O.J. SIMPSON UP FOR PAROLE
TODAY, AND THE THIRD ONE IS,
BERNARDO TRIAL
STARTS TOMORROW.
WE'VE GOT TO SPEED UP
THE JUSTICE SYSTEM.

Bruce says NOW, ANOTHER THING I HAVE,
I'M ALSO A GUN PERSON,
I LOVE THE SPORT
VERY, VERY MUCH.

Mike says I'M SORRY, A WHAT CLERK?

Bruce says A SPORTS PERSON.
I SHOOT PISTOLS, EH?

Mike says YEAH.

Bruce says AND WHEN THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT IS COMING OUT
WITH LAWS, WELL, IF YOU
COMMIT A CRIME WITH A GUN,
IT'S FOUR YEARS OR
SOMETHING LIKE THIS,
NOW I GO ALONG WITH THIS,
BUT WHAT IS IN PLACE THERE
SO THE LAWYERS CAN'T DEAL
THESE CHARGES AWAY
BEFORE THEY GET
INTO COURT.

Mike says YOU'RE
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
AND WE TOO ARE
SUPPORTIVE.
WE'VE BEEN CALLING FOR
TOUGHER SENTENCES
FOR ILLEGAL USE OF LEGAL GUNS,
AND ANY USE OF ILLEGAL GUNS.
AND I HOPE THEY DON'T BACK
DOWN ON THOSE SIDES OF IT.
SOME OF THE
REGISTRATION PART SEEMS
A LITTLE CONTROVERSIAL. AND
YOU'RE QUITE RIGHT, AS WELL,
YOU OUGHT NOT TO BE ABLE TO
PLEA BARGAIN THESE OFFENCES.
WE MAKE THEM MORE SERIOUS,
AND WE TREAT THEM UP FRONT.
TOUGHER SENTENCES, AND DO AWAY
WITH THE PLEA BARGAINING,
I THINK WILL SERVE
JUSTICE WELL.

Steve says WITH JUST A FEW MINUTES LEFT,
WE'RE GOING TO ASK YOU
FOR QUICKER COMMENTS AND
RESPONSES, IF WE CAN, PLEASE.
PHIL, IN WINCHESTER.

Mike says THIS IS THE RAPID FIRE ROUND?

Steve says HERE WE GO.

Mike says OKAY.

Phil says GOOD DAY, MIKE.

Mike says HI, PHIL.

The caption changes to "Phil. Winchester."

Phil says CALLING FROM
STORMONT DUNDAS.
EAST GRENVILLE.
WE'VE GOT THE
BEST IN THERE.
BUT I GOT TWO QUESTIONS ABOUT
THE COMMON SENSE REVOLUTION.
I KNOW WE'VE GOT TO
SPEED THIS UP HERE.
IN YOUR BOOK, YOU PROPOSE TO
CUT THE HIGH SCHOOL YEARS
FROM FIVE YEARS TO FOUR.
I WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU'RE
GOING TO DIFFERENTIATE
BETWEEN COLLEGE AND
UNIVERSITY EDUCATION?
BECAUSE THE FIVE YEARS IS
FOR UNIVERSITY EDUCATION.
AND MY SECOND QUESTION
IS ABOUT, YOU KNOW,
YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF
DEEP CUTS IN THERE,
AND I'M WONDERING HOW YOU
ARE GOING TO BE FLEXIBLE
IF SOMETHING LIKE STRUCTURAL
OR CYCLICAL UNEMPLOYMENT
SETS IN WITH THESE
DEEP CUTS?

Steve says LET'S HEAR THE ANSWERS IF WE CAN.

Mike says WELL, THE CUTS ARE SPECIFIC
TO PROGRAMS THAT ARE IN THERE.
OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, SOME
OF OUR PROGRAMS, ENTITLEMENT
PROGRAMS, AND SAFETY NET
PROGRAMS COSTS GO ON.
WE'LL HAVE TO DEAL WITH
THOSE, AND BEAR THOSE.
SO THAT'S WHY WE
PROJECTED NOT BOOM YEARS,
BUT AVERAGE YEARS.
AND WE THINK OUR
PROJECTIONS ARE VERY CLOSE.
FIVE YEARS TO FOUR YEARS, UM,
THERE'S NO OTHER STATE
IN THE UNITED STATES OF 50,
AND NO OTHER PROVINCE
THAT HAS THE SAME FIVE
YEARS POST GRADE 8
THAT WE HAVE HERE
IN ONTARIO.
WE'RE CONVINCED WITH MAYBE
A FEW MORE DAYS IN A SCHOOL
YEAR, MAYBE AN EXTRA TEN
OR FIVE MINUTES EACH DAY,
WE CAN HAVE THE
SAME TEACHING TIME,
AND WE CAN ACCOMPLISH IN FOUR
YEARS THE SAME AS THE REST OF
CANADA AND THE UNITED STATES,
AND MOST COUNTRIES ARE DOING.

Steve says SEE IF WE CAN
SNEAK ONE MORE IN.
BILL FROM TORONTO, YOUR
TURN WITH MIKE HARRIS.

Bill says WELL, GOOD EVENING.

Mike says GOOD EVENING.

Bill says I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT ANY
QUANTUM MECHANICS RESEARCHER,
OR PHYSICIST AND ENGINEER
AND CORPORATE DIRECTOR,
SOME OF WHICH ARE ON WELFARE,
WOULD ACCEPT THIS
TRANSPLENDENCE, YOUR FOUL WIND
KNOWN AS THE PC REVULSION
IN LIGHT OF THE FACT, INDEED,
SOME OF THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE
NOT GETTING ANY REASONABLE
APPRECIATION OF THEIR CONCERNS.
THE GENERAL WELFARE ASSISTANCE
ALLOTMENT OF 250 dollars PER MONTH
OF DISPOSABLE ASSETS AFTER
PAYING RENT IS SURELY NOT
ENOUGH TO COVER THEIR NEEDS.
AND OUT OF THAT, THEY'RE
BEING ASKED TO EXPEND MONEY
ON METRO PASS AND NEWSPAPER
CHANGE AND TELEPHONE CHANGE.

Steve says BILL, SIR, RUNNING
OUT OF TIME.

Bill says YOU, SIR, ARE A NITWIT.
YOU SHOULD BE OFF THE AIR.
MOVE.

Mike says WELL, LISTEN, ISN'T THIS A
GREAT THING ABOUT ONTARIO,
AND CANADA, AND
ABOUT TALK SHOWS,
THAT PEOPLE CAN SAY
EXACTLY WHAT THEY THINK.

Steve says WE'LL LET ANYBODY
ON, EVEN HOSTS.

Mike says YOU KNOW WHAT, THIS GUY
TALKED ABOUT SCIENCE.
MY NINE-YEAR-OLD IS
WATCHING, AND HE SAID, MIKE,
YOU'RE GOING ON TVO - OR
DAD, YOU'RE GOING ON TVO,
MY SON'S NAME IS
MICHAEL, HE SAYS,
SAY HELLO TO BILL
NYE THE SCIENCE GUY.
HE'S MY FAVOURITE.

Steve says AND YOU'VE JUST DONE IT.

Mike says I'VE DONE THAT.

Steve says LISTEN, I'VE GOT ENOUGH TIME
LEFT TO ASK YOU BASICALLY
ONE QUOTE THAT I KNOW
BOB RAE IS FOND OF USING.
HE SAYS, I'M NOT RUNNING
AGAINST THE ALMIGHTY,
I'M RUNNING AGAINST
THE ALTERNATIVES,
YOU AND Miss McLEOD.
AND I GUESS HE'S SAYING THAT
BECAUSE WHEN HE COMPARES HIS
QUALITIES TO YOURS, HE'S NOT
THAT IMPRESSED WITH YOU.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?

Mike says WELL, I DON'T EXPECT
HIM TO GO OUT AND SAY,
YOU KNOW, MIKE HARRIS
IS THE GUY.
I SAY THAT THE PUBLIC OUGHT
TO NOT LISTEN TO WHAT
BOB RAE SAYS ABOUT ME, OR
LYN McLEOD SAYS ABOUT ME,
OR REALLY WHAT I
SAY ABOUT THEM.
I THINK THEY SHOULD
ANALYZE THE PLANS
AND THE CREDIBILITY
FOR THEMSELVES.
IT'S THEIR VOTE.
AND I THINK THEY SHOULD
MAKE THAT DECISION.

Steve says Mr. HARRIS, THANKS SO MUCH
FOR COMING IN TONIGHT.
WE APPRECIATE IT.

Mike says THANKS, STEVE.

Watch: Mike Harris on the Common Sense Revolution