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The Article...
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. I've been saying the same thing as Hirsh for the past 5 years.
Calm is my default and not simply my fault. A suspicion counter, gainfully employed by Suspicious Minds. A psychic amnesiac with peripheral vision. I know in advance what I'll forget. And most times I see far into the future, but just way off to one side. |
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The Urban-Rural Divide There has always been an urban-rural divide, the way of life of each is so uniquely different, however I think what is exacerbating the "conflict" is the fear and resentment of immigrants. Many Canadians, especially those living outside the cities, feel the "Canadian way of life" is being hijacked by immigrants. In fact, many people have moved away from urban centres to escape immigrant communities. My father lives in an adult townhouse community and last summer I had the occasion to attend an outdoor party there. I met three elderly couples who moved from neighborhoods in Toronto because of the encroachment of new immigrants. The venom they expressed about what they saw as the decline of Canada, was disturbing.
It is interesting to note that there is a similar divide in the U.S.-Republican/rural vs. Democrat/urban. |
by 2h |
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Rural-urban divide? Of course, there is a rural-urban divide, but there is more to it than that. There is also an East-West divide, and a Quebec-Rest of Canada divide. This is all clear from the election results, so the analysis is not as simple as Jesse suggests. |
Posted on 05 Dec 08 at 1:17 PM
Last edit: 05 Dec 08 at 1:23 PM by Boris |
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RE: Rural-urban divide?
I want to add some "popular support" caveats to what you said.
If we're talking about the west (BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, & Manitoba)... In BC & Manitoba, the Lib/Dem/Green won the popular vote. The Tories won the popular vote in Alberta & Saskatchewan.
If we're talking about Quebec vs. "The Rest of Canada"... The "rest of Canada" voted for more Lib/Dem/Green than Conservatives. Quebec was just the icing on the cake.
If we're talking "urban", a quick look at the "major centres" data suggests... The Conservatives lost almost every major city in Canada. They were even shut out of most western cities. Their only major city wins coming in Calgary & Edmonton.
Again, we're talking "popular vote" here. A guage of popular sentiment.
This at a time when the Liberals were fielding their weakest leader in modern history. You would expect a Conservative sweep across English Canada & the cities. But they couldn't pull it off. |
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Question
My question for everyone:
Is federal seat distribution regularly adjusted to reflect population concentration?
Or has the seat count been this way since confederation?
(I know I can google for this info, but I'm busy with other work. So perhaps someone who already knows can answer it for me |
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City State I would suggest that the rural / urban divide is based on something different alltogether. Cities are in fact quite weak economically and politically, they have to run hat in hand to the provincial and / or federal powers that be for all major projects or policy decisions. Their tax base is not proportional to their infrastructure demands. This situation is an accident of Confederation, a time when the provinces and federation were mostly rural. It might be argued that metropolitan regions such as Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver should in fact be provinces in their own right. At present they send their money to the provincials / federals, then have to beg for it to fund projects according to provincial or federal criteria, which are obsolete. There needs to be more focus on metropolitan issues, and their ability to have more direct governance backed by the apropriate tax base. |
by DieterH |
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RE: The Urban-Rural Divide
If you are correct about large numbers of older Canadians being unreasonably hostile towards immigrants, you can count on having the problem solve itself - one funeral at a time. "We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are." A. Nin |
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RE: Question
Of course not. There is no intention that it should. The cities are deliberately badly short-changed of seats. It's a hangover from the days, when rural ridings were so much larger, and transportation and communication were much more difficult in them than in compact urban ridings. This is no longer the case, but the two old parties like to pretend that it is.
There is an authority that studies re-distribution constantly. After each ten year census it reports to Parliament, and changes are made to some riding boundaries, and to the number of seats in Parliament.
The number of Quebec seats remains constant, and all of the other provinces are compared to Quebec. (Let me say that is a perfectly fair system by the way, in case anyone of you thinks that it is not.)
An exception is Prince Edward Island which is massively over-represented, because of a clause that says no province can have fewer M.P's than it has Senators. (P.E.I. has four of each.)
The recommendations of the most recent report were badly skewed so that Ontario will not get all of the extra seats that it deserves, based upon population increases here. This province deserves 21 more seats, but it will get only 10. B.C. and Alberta will of course get their fair share. That seems to please people in the rest of the country, Conservatives are particularly delighted with the news.
If, like Stephen Harper, you live in Alberta, and you were smart enough to put all of that petroleum and natural gas into the ground in the first place, you can't see any reason why Ontario should get its fair share of federal ridings.
Answered above.
Yes, particularly if we're Albertans. |
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RE: City State
The situation in much of Europe is decidedly different than in Canada. Cities are much more autonomous there - much less dependent on "higher" levels of government.
We are still in the 19th century in that respect. "We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are." A. Nin |
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Cities much more autonomous in Europe? Some cities, perhaps, Ex-T. Hamburg and Bremen certainly and Berlin, no doubt. But in general, European cities come under regional, departmental or state governments just as they do here. |
Posted on 05 Dec 08 at 9:29 PM
by Boris |
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Put it in the Ground First ( Ex-T ): If, like Stephen Harper, you live in Alberta, and you were smart enough to put all of that petroleum and natural gas into the ground in the first place,
Actually a brilliant idea - it would save all the geological prospecting costs. Be careful what you post ....... it might be taken seriously ! Charles may be interested, he would know where all the gold, diamonds and oil are stashed .-) ... and just truck it away again when needed. |
by DieterH |
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Autonomy of Cities ( Boris ): But in general, European cities come under regional, departmental or state governments just as they do here.
I very much suspect, given the early history of European cities, that they in fact have acquired more autonomy. They were the first to throw off the yoke of feudalism and sovereign subjection. The big cities ( Paris / London / Berlin / Petersburg ..... ) were in fact hot beds of revolution against the monarchies. Might be a good Agenda topic, to discuss the balance of power: Canadian cities vs. provincial and federal priorities. |
by DieterH |
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not sure
While I agree with both Boris and Dieter there is also conflict within the "urban" side of the equation. Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver to a much lesser extent may vote in blocks for mainly one party Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Ottawa, London, Kitchener, Quebec City and Halifax do not. My point is that there is divide on the urban part of the equation so maybe it is the big 3 versus the ROC as the Tories seem to have a current lock on the rural side of the equation. Maybe a majority for any party needs to be won in the remainder of the urban vote and not in the big 3? Maybe the issues in the balance of metropolitan areas are slightly different than in the big 3? |
Posted on 08 Dec 08 at 11:32 AM
by leaffan444 |
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